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Thread: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    A loss to Clinton in 1992.
    yeah, cause the GOPers couldn't stand the fact that the tax-increases helped stabilize the economy.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    This has nothing to do with my statement. Economic uncertainty alone is enough to cut high income consumption; tax increases along with said uncertainty only makes it worse....
    There is no economic uncertainty when it comes to the wealthy. Year after year, the wealth of the rich has increased.







    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by thunder View Post
    yeah, cause the gopers couldn't stand the fact that the tax-increases helped stabilize the economy.
    ?????????????????????????? Wtf????????????????????????????

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Which is true when considering consumption as a % of total disposable. The flip side of the coin is because they are not big spenders, increasing taxes on high income earners during (near) full employment is not a negative because their consumption pattern(s) will not change drastically.
    except that most of the wealthy also invest in their own businesses, which means that when you increase their taxes they will reduce those ongoing investments.


    my uncle is a prime example - small business owner, worked his way up from a trailer to a multi-million dollar business, etc. His "Big Expenses" is that he likes to go fishing, and he bought a pool in the back yard for his daughters. He used to have 100 employees, but with the multi year recession (he works in contracting) he's down to about 60. The savings have been burnt through keeping as many with him as long as possible. You raise his taxes, and the next day he has to walk into work and fire people to make sure he stays in the black.

    his lifestyle will probably - you are correct - remain the same. he wont' stop buying gasoline for his truck to take his boat to various lakes. He won't have to sell his house with the pool and move back into a trailer. My Aunt may start cooking more like she used to and picking up less. His former employees consumption will be dramatically curtailed. the consumption of the currently] unemployed who he might otherwise have hired will remain curtailed. Less worth will be added to society from all involved. But you are correct, he won't drastically change his consumption habits.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    except that most of the wealthy also invest in their own businesses, which means that when you increase their taxes they will reduce those ongoing investments.
    Nonsense. Business owners don't invest in their own business simply because they have money laying around. They invest in their own business because they believe they will get a better return (ie more profit) than investing it elsewhere. A businessman who invests in his own business when he can get a better return elsewhere should be run out of business and probably will.



    my uncle is a prime example - small business owner, worked his way up from a trailer to a multi-million dollar business, etc. His "Big Expenses" is that he likes to go fishing, and he bought a pool in the back yard for his daughters. He used to have 100 employees, but with the multi year recession (he works in contracting) he's down to about 60. The savings have been burnt through keeping as many with him as long as possible. You raise his taxes, and the next day he has to walk into work and fire people to make sure he stays in the black.
    Each of those employees is contributing to the profit of his business. Firing them will only reduce his profits, an awfully stupid way to reduce ones' income taxes.

    his lifestyle will probably - you are correct - remain the same. he wont' stop buying gasoline for his truck to take his boat to various lakes. He won't have to sell his house with the pool and move back into a trailer. My Aunt may start cooking more like she used to and picking up less. His former employees consumption will be dramatically curtailed. the consumption of the currently] unemployed who he might otherwise have hired will remain curtailed. Less worth will be added to society from all involved. But you are correct, he won't drastically change his consumption habits.
    Thanks for proving our point for us. Your uncles business is more dependent on demand, not tax rates, and his personal consumption is dependent on neither
    Last edited by sangha; 07-16-11 at 10:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    So you're saying that if you owned a business, you would NEVER raise prices if you weren't profiting?

    Is that a good way to run a business?
    -chuckles- the word never in your statement is a great bait and trap ... but it's a safe bet to say that if a company isn't profiting in most intances ... they would not raise prices but would look to cut spending ........but.... I'll assume .... then ... that you would agree with a company adding to their profits by raising prices when you find the CEO got a 10 million dollar bonus ... use of company owned jet, yacht, and other misc. perks ....

    See I see the comparison between government and business kind of awkward to say the least ... lets look at government since 1989.... we have increased taxes 25%, and we've increased deficit spending by 1000%..... now forgive me..... but in the opion of rational folks .. we have a much bigger spending problem then we do taxing problem ..

    Now you have to determine what it is you want ... do you want big business to act as our government acts ... or do you want them to make a profit .. perhaps if our government adopted some of the same principles of successful businesses ... we would be much better off ..
    Last edited by The Barbarian; 07-17-11 at 12:26 AM.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Nonsense. Business owners don't invest in their own business simply because they have money laying around. They invest in their own business because they believe they will get a better return (ie more profit) than investing it elsewhere. A businessman who invests in his own business when he can get a better return elsewhere should be run out of business and probably will.

    Each of those employees is contributing to the profit of his business. Firing them will only reduce his profits, an awfully stupid way to reduce ones' income taxes.



    Thanks for proving our point for us. Your uncles business is more dependent on demand, not tax rates, and his personal consumption is dependent on neither
    Just a wild guess ..... but you have never owned a business yourself have you ??

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Just a wild guess ..... but you have never owned a business yourself have you ??
    I created Google, Facebook, Intel, and Apple
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ...Boehner reiterated his position that the debt ceiling “must be raised,” and praised President Obama for “making that case” at a press conference earlier in the day. Tax increases, however, could not realistically be part of the solution. “The American people will not accept, and the House cannot pass, a bill that raises taxes on job creators,” he said. “The House can only pass a debt limit bill that includes spending cuts larger than the hike in the debt limit, as well as real restraints on future spending.”...


    Code for: "We'll raise the debt limit, large spending cuts will be part of the deal. I think I can get my party to accept getting rid of some tax loopholes that are no longer necessary as opposed to increasing taxes on "job creators" (...code for "investors and business owners"...). But under no circumstances will the Republican party accept tax increases on anyone else, weathy or otherwise."

    At this point, I can live with that as long as the revenue generated by eliminating those tax loopholes are huge! Fact is, the country could use the revenue to start paying down the debt faster.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    except that most of the wealthy also invest in their own businesses, which means that when you increase their taxes they will reduce those ongoing investments.


    My uncle is a prime example - small business owner, worked his way up from a trailer to a multi-million dollar business,...
    We can stop right there. Point to remember here, folks, is this: the tax increase the President has proposed would not impact the profits of the small business. So, if cpwill's uncle's business made a profit of $2 million, the small business would not be taxed, atleast not in the way the tax debate has been phrased. Now, if cpwill's uncle earned $1 million in income from his business, his income would likely be taxed, but NOT the profits from his business - not unless the uncle declared the business proceeds as his total income.

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