Page 108 of 212 FirstFirst ... 85898106107108109110118158208 ... LastLast
Results 1,071 to 1,080 of 2119

Thread: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

  1. #1071
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,148

    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, you posted an Op-ed piece, and it wasn't even on topic.


    the numbers, boo, the numbers.

  2. #1072
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes, it is possible to raise taxes and increase jobs (See the Clinton Administration). Too bad the Republicans walked away from cutting $3 in spending for every $1 of tax increases. Their narrow ideology is more important to them than reducing the deficit, and the American people are witnessing it for themselves!
    For me, the point is taxes aren't really the determining factor. I think people get confused because they make causal relationship errors in their thinking. They pick a point in time and say, oh, he decreased taxes and employment went up, therefore it must be the tax cut. However, they forget when that didn't happen, or when taxes went up and jobs growth occured. The fact is, job growth and reduction was likely due to other factors, likely more than one.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #1073
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the numbers, boo, the numbers.
    You're still ignoring what we're talking about. There were no numbers on that subject. I doubled checked.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #1074
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Yea...remember when we were told a 39.6% rate would destroy the economy? And that hiking the minimum wage would cause us to LOSE jobs.

    God, the 1990s were SOOOO terrible. What an awful time to be in business. It was like you were under constant attack.
    They would call that socialism today! LOL!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #1075
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    tax increases do several things

    1) they don't increase jobs

    2) they fuel more reckless spending by the government

    3) they convince many slackers that the government can continue reckless spending since there is "more revenue" and those slackers continue to demand more reckless spending

    4) the dems can use it to fuel the class warfare and envy that gets many ne'er do wells to vote dem

    I think it is a hoot that you always number your personal opinions that you offer up in your lame attempts to "refute" someone else's documented facts!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #1076
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    The green line is wishful thinking. Without the military spending of the 80s, the fall of the USSR is questionable. Trade would have been much more restricted, and Clinton would not have balanced the budget without the slashes in military funding.
    Perhaps we will become capable of learning from history one day.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #1077
    Pragmatic Idealist
    upsideguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Rocky Mtn. High
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:00 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,137

    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    This would be what we were talkng about:

    Florida has the fifth lowest corporate income tax rate in the country at 5.5 percent, trailing only South Dakota, Alaska, Wyoming and Nevada states hardly in Florida's league. Yet Florida's unemployment rate remains far higher than the 9.1 percent national average. Recently, both a Tax Foundation study and University of Central Florida economist Sean Snaith have argued that reducing taxes has no discernible impact on job growth.

    It's not hard to find evidence to support such a view. Other states with much higher corporate tax rates Connecticut, New York, Illinois, Massachusetts, New York and New Jersey all enjoy significantly lower jobless numbers, as well as hosting the corporate headquarters of many more Fortune 500 companies per capita.

    Tax cuts don't create jobs - St. Petersburg Times

    There's a lot on this. It is about the mistaken notion that tax cuts create jobs and that tax increases lose jobs. There's no evidence to support that.

    is switching the subject yet another tactic of yours?
    Not only is there no evidence to that effect, it defies logic.... jobs are created as a result of a demand for a product or service, or a perceived demand for a product or service (a company gearing up.) Cutting taxes does not create demand. You are not going to cut anyone's taxes and expect that people hire. That is lunacy.

    Sorry, but cutting expenditures is a much bigger threat to an economy than adjusting taxes. Putting money into an economy has very real, measureable results (at least at the primary tiers). The idea that cutting taxes somehow benefits an economy is hypothetical at best. I am still challenging people to explain exactly how it works (and no one has, because no one on this board really knows how it works). It is just silliness.

    Government Expenditure effect on the economy:

    Let's say the government contracts a building maintenance service. It pays the service $1000 for a month's work. Let's say the owner makes a 20% pre-tax on the business and the rest is paid to the workers that actually do the cleaning (we will leave supplies out here for simplicity)... The owner has a $200 profit. It is taxed at 30%... $60 back to the government. The worker earns $800. Payroll taxes on that are $62 to the worker and $62 to the employer... we are now up to $184 back to the government. The worker has a $800 income... after deductions, lets call it $700. That at 30% is $210.... now the government has $390 of its $1000 back. The worker, as a lower wager earner, saves nothing and consumes everything (the remaining $590 is spent).... if they paid $100 to a plumber, he pays $30 in taxes. They buy groceries with the other $494... that store has a 20% pre-tax profit, so another $30 to the government....plus the store has workers and supplies.... so the $1000 paid by the government is a $1000 in revenue to the cleaning company, $100 in revenue to the plumber, $490 in revenue to the grocery store.... and $454 (45%) in tax receipts. This is just a two tier look, it assumes everyone pays 30% to the federal government and does not consider other state and local taxes... but it is the way the system works. it is why stimulus spending works. Of course, you need an economy to continue to move money through it.

    Spending money does not fix the deficit other than it stimulates the revenue flow to the government... that will fix the deficit. $400B of revenue disappeared because the economy headed south. As my example shows you, cutting the $1000 from the government cleaning bill will have revenue consequences. it is not a $1000 saved.

    Tax cut effect on the economy:

    ?????????? (Bueller, anyone, anyone.....)
    Last edited by upsideguy; 07-16-11 at 03:30 AM.

  8. #1078
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Seen
    03-16-12 @ 11:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,624

    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Not only is there no evidence to that effect, it defies logic.... jobs are created as a result of a demand for a product or service, or a perceived demand for a product or service (a company gearing up.) Cutting taxes does not create demand. You are not going to cut anyone's taxes and expect that people hire. That is lunacy.
    It defies logic? We instituted a "luxury tax" on things like cars and boats over a certain price. The tax didn't last long because of the negative effect it had on those items. People were laid off. The tax was cut and people were hired.

    Sorry, but cutting expenditures is a much bigger threat to an economy than adjusting taxes. Putting money into an economy has very real, measureable results (at least at the primary tiers). The idea that cutting taxes somehow benefits an economy is hypothetical at best. I am still challenging people to explain exactly how it works (and no one has, because no one on this board really knows how it works). It is just silliness.
    It certainly wasn't to those working in those industries.

  9. #1079
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,769

    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I think it is a hoot that you always number your personal opinions that you offer up in your lame attempts to "refute" someone else's documented facts!
    I love your rants about the rich and how everyone more industrious than you should pay more taxes



  10. #1080
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:22 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    90,071

    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Perhaps we will become capable of learning from history one day.
    Some people certainly are. And some people certainly are not. Sadly, we have entered a period of political discourse where a persons belief system - a self imposed belief system - pretty much rules the intellectual process for far too many people. We have lots of folks on the right who believe what they believe because they want to believe it. To them, political discussion is no different than faith or religion.

    Such people present very high obstacles in learning because so much of what they accept as truth or normalcy is merely a self imposed belief.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •