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Proposed Australian Law Would Make Muslim Women Lift Veil

jamesrage

jamesrage

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I'm in general against bans on religious items. However, for the purpose of State identification (such as a photo ID) or upon reasonable request from law officers, a person should have to reveal their identity.
 
This seems roughly analogous to many laws here in the US, and I suspect if a law like this one were proposed in the US it would pass Constitutional muster (in the sense of not violating the free expression clause of the First Amendment). While the law obviously disproportionately impacts Muslim women, it appears to have been enacted for the neutral purpose of allowing police to do their jobs. It is, in Constitutional parlance, a neutral law of general applicability.
 
I don't see the big deal about this. It's not like they're banning them from wearing the veil if they want to. I don't see why they should be exempt from identification. It isn't "religious insensitivity" to hold them to the same standard as they do everyone else.
 
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On just police say so, hell no, this should not be. In the US, it would not pass constitutional muster. However, with a warrant or reasonable suspicion of criminal wrongdoing (Terry v. Ohio)... then yes, I could see this. Of course, I don't know the nuances of Australian law, I can only speak for the US.
 
Paschendale said:
On just police say so, hell no, this should not be. In the US, it would not pass constitutional muster. However, with a warrant or reasonable suspicion of criminal wrongdoing (Terry v. Ohio)... then yes, I could see this. Of course, I don't know the nuances of Australian law, I can only speak for the US.
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The way I read this, it was meant to apply to legitimate police investigations rather than the whims of police officers. Obviously I agree with your point re: reasonable suspicion.
 
Gee.

Who knew that wearing a veil made it difficult for police to see your face?
 
Paschendale said:
On just police say so, hell no, this should not be. In the US, it would not pass constitutional muster. However, with a warrant or reasonable suspicion of criminal wrongdoing (Terry v. Ohio)... then yes, I could see this. Of course, I don't know the nuances of Australian law, I can only speak for the US.
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Just like IDs I believe police should not have the right to ask you to see them unless there is a reasonable suspicion of wrong doing. You walking around in public regardless if your face is concealed or not warrant reasonable suspicion.

Now I do believe if you want a ID or driver's licenses or something else that requires a photo the veil should come off for that photo. If you If you testify in court the veil should come off because you have the right to face your accuser. If you are driving the veil should come off mostly because it would restrict your vision.Banks should be able to restrict their customers from concealing their identity due to the fact people like to conceal their identity while robbing banks. And there might be other circumstances in which the veil should come off or be banned.
 
Police in Australia previously had the power to ask women to remove veils during the investigation of serious offences but did not have such powers during routine car stops.

this new legislation is not just targeting women who wear veils. it's to cover all head coverings including helmets.
 
I love how we all agree that this is a reasonable, evenhanded law.
 
repeter said:
I love how we all agree that this is a reasonable, evenhanded law.
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I think most people would agree that there should be reasonable suspicion before a police officer can ask you to lift your veil or show ID.
 
jamesrage said:
I think most people would agree that there should be reasonable suspicion before a police officer can ask you to lift your veil or show ID.
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You wear a veil?
 
I'm surprised there isn't already a law covering this
 
ManofthPeephole said:
I'm surprised there isn't already a law covering this
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There may already be for all I know. If what was in the OPs article is true, it affects only a very, very small number of people in Australia (less than 2000 out of 23mil, or <0.008%), and as such is prob'ly an unnecessary law already. I wouldn't be surprised is there were already some statute or law that could be used for this purpose.
 
Seems to me that there are plenty of very obvious reasons for this to occur...starting with...

"The laws were motivated by the bungled prosecution of Carnita Matthews, a 47-year-old Muslim mother of seven who was booked by a highway patrolman for a minor traffic violation in Sydney in June last year.

An official complaint was made in Matthews' name against Senior Constable Paul Fogarty, the policeman who gave her the ticket. The complaint accused Fogarty of racism and of attempting to tear off her veil during their roadside encounter.
Unknown to Matthews, the encounter was recorded by a camera inside Fogarty's squad car. The video footage showed her aggressively berating a restrained Fogarty and did not support her claim that he tried to grab her veil before she reluctantly and angrily lifted it to show her face.
Matthews was sentenced in November to six months in jail for making a deliberately false statement to police.
But that conviction and sentence were quashed on appeal last month without her serving any time in jail because a judge was not convinced that it was Matthews who signed the false statutory declaration. The woman who signed the document had worn a burqa and a justice of the peace who witnessed the signing had not looked beneath the veil to confirm her identity"
Read more: Proposed Australian Law Would Make Muslim Women Lift Veil - FoxNews.com
 
Don't see anything news worthy about this. It should have been just a simple amendment to the same law that gave police the rights to ask for your ID under probably cause or reasonable suspicion.

I could be wrong, but it seems like the media is trying to equate or correlate this to "The world is starting to crack down on Muslims and maybe we should, too."
 
VanceMack said:
Seems to me that there are plenty of very obvious reasons for this to occur...starting with...

"The laws were motivated by the bungled prosecution of Carnita Matthews, a 47-year-old Muslim mother of seven who was booked by a highway patrolman for a minor traffic violation in Sydney in June last year.

An official complaint was made in Matthews' name against Senior Constable Paul Fogarty, the policeman who gave her the ticket. The complaint accused Fogarty of racism and of attempting to tear off her veil during their roadside encounter.
Unknown to Matthews, the encounter was recorded by a camera inside Fogarty's squad car. The video footage showed her aggressively berating a restrained Fogarty and did not support her claim that he tried to grab her veil before she reluctantly and angrily lifted it to show her face.
Matthews was sentenced in November to six months in jail for making a deliberately false statement to police.
But that conviction and sentence were quashed on appeal last month without her serving any time in jail because a judge was not convinced that it was Matthews who signed the false statutory declaration. The woman who signed the document had worn a burqa and a justice of the peace who witnessed the signing had not looked beneath the veil to confirm her identity"
Read more: Proposed Australian Law Would Make Muslim Women Lift Veil - FoxNews.com
Click to expand...

These show some very reasonable times when lifting the veil is absolutley necessary. How con one witness the signing of something if they can't see who is signing, for example? And the situation with teh police officer clearly indicates that identification was warranted.
 
There are muslims in Australia?

How did they get in?
 
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