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Thread: China: U.S. Spends Too Much on Military

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    Re: China: U.S. Spends Too Much on Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    “In each instance we must ask: First, is this respectful of the American taxpayer at a time of economic and fiscal duress?” he said. “And second, is this activity or arrangement the best use of limited dollars, given the pressing needs to take care of our people, win the wars we are in, and invest in the capabilities necessary to deal with the most likely and lethal future threats?”
    -SecDef Robert Gates

    ""I know the U.S. is still recovering from the financial crisis," Chen said. "Under such circumstances, it is still spending a lot of money on its military and isn't that placing too much pressure on the taxpayers? "If the U.S. could reduce its military spending a bit and spend more on improving the livelihood of the American people ... wouldn't that be a better scenario?"
    -General Chen Bingde

    They are saying the exact same thing. From your underlined text "spend more on improving the livelihood of the American people" it sounds a hell of a lot like "given the pressing needs to take care of our people."
    It's in China's best interest to see to it that we spend less on defense.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: China: U.S. Spends Too Much on Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Ok so we've taken a guess, as accurate as can be I'm sure, and I trust your source. We're still looking at a a difference of about 600 billion dollars, so what was the point of this topic besides to equate the left with the Chinese.
    You're right, that was part of the point. The left needs to stop think like our enemies and start thinking like Americans. I'm sick and tired of seeing the left agree with everyone except the mainstream of Americans. It's always about everyone else (Europe, China, whoever) is wiser than we are. Yet not one of them has accomplished in such short a time, what we have. And all of them have benefitted from our way of thinking. This country wasn't created to be like Europe, just the opposite. No one is perfect, but if any example is going to be held out as The Example, it's going to be us not them. You think China is prospering because of their communist system? Of course it isn't; it's because they are copying us in some way.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: China: U.S. Spends Too Much on Military

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    It's in China's best interest to see to it that we spend less on defense.
    Thats not the point of this thread, if there even is a point lets recap:

    1st post "So, looks like our Chinese "friends" agree with the left."
    So the American left is just like the Chinese and the Chinese are bad so therefore so are the left. That was your first point.

    2nd post "You need to add the cost of what they steal to their budget."
    The Chinese secretly lie about their true military spending, its more than what they say. I agree with you here, but its not the first point you made.

    3rd post "You conveniently overlooked the underlined text, no doubt intentionally."
    Personal insult, don't make a point just state I must have missed it.

    4th post "China Says It Is Slowing Down Military Spending - NYTimes.com"
    Back to the second post's topic, you've provided a good source to back that argument.

    5th post "It's in China's best interest to see to it that we spend less on defense."
    Now we are talking about the geopolitical relation between the US and China, something not mentioned in the first 5 posts.

    So what exactly is this topic about? You keep changing the point and claiming I can't see it, well frankly I cannot but maybe if your posts were longer than a single sentance and you could actually flesh out an argument which makes whatever point you are trying to make clear, then I might understand what you are getting at. I don't even have to agree, heck I probably won't, but I would like to understand your point.

    Now addressing the orginal point, obviously China isn't the only one who wants to see a reduction in our military spending and obviously so does our SecDef. For different reasons? Certainly. Gates whats to see a military with less waste, and I'm sure General Bingde wants to see a weaker US military, especially in East Asia. Both involve cutting costs, in that regard they are the same. This is why you need to flesh out arguments more, there's nothing wrong with cutting spending its WHY you cut spending.

    If you only look at one factor, like the fact that both the SecDef and Chinese Chief of the PLA want to see US cut spending, then yes its easy to make a rediculous arguement that "Robert Gates is just as bad as those Chinese!" which is the same disregard for other information that led you to this "The American left is just like China!" arguement in your first post. But when you factor in that other relevant information you see the two are entirely different. I know you consider me to be a leftist, although I don't personally, but let me tell you the US Army needs some damn trimming, you wouldn't believe the kind of **** we waste money on and its money spent which does nothing to our national defense, its just waste and God Damn there is nothing wrong with removing waste.

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    Re: China: U.S. Spends Too Much on Military

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You're right, that was part of the point. The left needs to stop think like our enemies and start thinking like Americans. I'm sick and tired of seeing the left agree with everyone except the mainstream of Americans. It's always about everyone else (Europe, China, whoever) is wiser than we are. Yet not one of them has accomplished in such short a time, what we have. And all of them have benefitted from our way of thinking. This country wasn't created to be like Europe, just the opposite. No one is perfect, but if any example is going to be held out as The Example, it's going to be us not them. You think China is prospering because of their communist system? Of course it isn't; it's because they are copying us in some way.
    They aren't thinking like our enemies, and China is not an enemy in my opinion its a competitor certainly but not yet an enemy. The US and China still have many national interests which are aligned. Also be careful if you want to educate me on China I've got quite a bit of education and personal experience with that country. The rest of this post I think is addressed well enough by my previous post, that thing about wanting cuts not to weaken defense but to eliminate waste being primary among them.

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    Re: China: U.S. Spends Too Much on Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Thats not the point of this thread, if there even is a point lets recap:

    1st post "So, looks like our Chinese "friends" agree with the left."
    So the American left is just like the Chinese and the Chinese are bad so therefore so are the left. That was your first point.

    2nd post "You need to add the cost of what they steal to their budget."
    The Chinese secretly lie about their true military spending, its more than what they say. I agree with you here, but its not the first point you made.

    3rd post "You conveniently overlooked the underlined text, no doubt intentionally."
    Personal insult, don't make a point just state I must have missed it.

    4th post "China Says It Is Slowing Down Military Spending - NYTimes.com"
    Back to the second post's topic, you've provided a good source to back that argument.

    5th post "It's in China's best interest to see to it that we spend less on defense."
    Now we are talking about the geopolitical relation between the US and China, something not mentioned in the first 5 posts.

    So what exactly is this topic about? You keep changing the point and claiming I can't see it, well frankly I cannot but maybe if your posts were longer than a single sentance and you could actually flesh out an argument which makes whatever point you are trying to make clear, then I might understand what you are getting at. I don't even have to agree, heck I probably won't, but I would like to understand your point.

    Now addressing the orginal point, obviously China isn't the only one who wants to see a reduction in our military spending and obviously so does our SecDef. For different reasons? Certainly. Gates whats to see a military with less waste, and I'm sure General Bingde wants to see a weaker US military, especially in East Asia. Both involve cutting costs, in that regard they are the same. This is why you need to flesh out arguments more, there's nothing wrong with cutting spending its WHY you cut spending.

    If you only look at one factor, like the fact that both the SecDef and Chinese Chief of the PLA want to see US cut spending, then yes its easy to make a rediculous arguement that "Robert Gates is just as bad as those Chinese!" which is the same disregard for other information that led you to this "The American left is just like China!" arguement in your first post. But when you factor in that other relevant information you see the two are entirely different. I know you consider me to be a leftist, although I don't personally, but let me tell you the US Army needs some damn trimming, you wouldn't believe the kind of **** we waste money on and its money spent which does nothing to our national defense, its just waste and God Damn there is nothing wrong with removing waste.
    Nice cut and paste job, now put it all into the original context instead of the one you implied. Two of the comments were to other people's posts, but you knew that. The left needs to leave behind the collectivist attitude of other country's, and accept the individualism created by and fostered in America for the first 200 years. We aren't like other countries for a reason, and we don't base decisions on how spend our money on those other philosophies. The primary mission of the Federal govt is common defense.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: China: U.S. Spends Too Much on Military

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You're right, that was part of the point. The left needs to stop think like our enemies and start thinking like Americans. I'm sick and tired of seeing the left agree with everyone except the mainstream of Americans. It's always about everyone else (Europe, China, whoever) is wiser than we are. Yet not one of them has accomplished in such short a time, what we have. And all of them have benefitted from our way of thinking. This country wasn't created to be like Europe, just the opposite. No one is perfect, but if any example is going to be held out as The Example, it's going to be us not them. You think China is prospering because of their communist system? Of course it isn't; it's because they are copying us in some way.
    Thanks for the rash and incorrect generalization about "the left."

    Signed,
    A member of "the left" who agrees we need a large standing army.
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    Re: China: U.S. Spends Too Much on Military

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Thanks for the rash and incorrect generalization about "the left."

    Signed,
    A member of "the left" who agrees we need a large standing army.
    But that defies my stereotypical generalizations which allow me to have a strong opinion on an otherwise complex world, that would require serious education, knowledge, and time to truly understand!


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    Re: China: U.S. Spends Too Much on Military

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Thanks for the rash and incorrect generalization about "the left."

    Signed,
    A member of "the left" who agrees we need a large standing army.
    How long has the left been pushing for spending cuts in defense, and no where else? How about always? Under which administrations have we cuts defense spending? If Clinton hadn't reduced spending, we wouldn't have had the drastic ramp-up after 9/11. We lost 10 years of progress in defense under him. And then when a war come along, you aren't prepared. Remember the armor fiasco during the Bush Admin? That's just one example. Really R&D spending was restored till the Bush 2nd term because of this. Carter did the same thing. All the peace dividend bull****. Wars don't occur on a schedule, so you have to prepared all the time.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: China: U.S. Spends Too Much on Military

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    It's in China's best interest to see to it that we spend less on defense.
    And it's in the interest of the United States that we don't focus on the quantity that the nation spends on it's military but rather the quality of defense spending.

    I don't mind the military having a large budget - I just want to make sure that we get as much bang for our buck as we can. And with the corruption we get from defense contractors we aren't spending military dollars as efficiently as we can.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: China: U.S. Spends Too Much on Military

    The government can't create jobs, remember? So we can cut the entire DoD and not one job would be lost!!!!
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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