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Thread: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    From finebead's post #75:



    Towhich I will add, "The voices of the rich and powerful majority typically drowns out the voice of the impovished minority."
    Let me know how you think this may correlate :


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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you have any idea what these "tax loopholes" are?

    There are no tax loopholes. People and corporations follow government guidelines when they pay their taxes and if they don't they are breaking the law and can then be arrested. If they are behaving in a perfectly legal manner then where and what are these "loopholes"?

    That this 'loophole" business is still being trotted out in order to create further class warfare is repellent. There will always be gullible and uninformed members of the public who will believe this foolishness and the dishonest politicians who prey on these people know it..
    I learned a long time ago Finebread is a bright fellow. I suspect he understands this all quite well. Just saying . . . .

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    It can be summed up in a single word - Sabotage.
    LOL!

    senator obama on the floor explaining his then (march, 06) vote AGAINST raising the ceiling:

    “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure,” he said. “It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.”
    Obama 2006 vs. Obama January 2011 vs. Obama April 2011 on the Debt Ceiling - Political Punch

    this january, robert gibbs rationalized the president's conspicuous reversal by observing that obama's assent back then was not required for passage, the ceiling was lifted without him

    Gibbs said it was OK for then-Senator Obama to have cast that vote, since the outcome was guaranteed.

    “Based on the outcome of that vote…the full faith and credit was not in doubt,” Gibbs said. Then-Sen. Obama used the vote “to make a point about needing to get serious about fiscal discipline….His vote was not necessarily needed on that.”
    making a point, huh?

    about the need to get serious about fiscal disclipline?

    about shifting burdens on to backs of grandkids?

    and bucks stopping where?

    leadership failure, anyone?

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    I know Jerry Brown did the California budget "without" them.
    june 29: California budget: Democrats pass austerity budget - Los Angeles Times

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    Simpson / Bolls had it right
    it's bowles

    erskine bowles, clinton's chief of staff

    he ran for senator in north carolina, jesse helms' seat, lost to elizabeth dole

    tried again for john edwards' seat, lost to richard burr

    fyi

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    The GOP claims "they're listening to the American people." Well, the People are demanding that Congress work together to find common sense solutions to our nation's debt and deficit problems.
    with all due respect, which is real, the common sense of the american people, as expressed in the last congressional elections, is not quite the convention you're perceiving

    no, the wisdom of mom and pop america is more rightly heard and acted upon today by leaders such as andrew cuomo in new york, jerry brown in california and rahm emanuel in chicago

    cuomo's got his finger on the pulse in the EMPIRE STATE, he's bold and big, he's confident and sure, his polls are thru the roof

    The way I see it Republicans would be walking away from the best deal they've had in a long time
    we're gonna get more, we're gonna get a lot more

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Obama's budget was voted down because a different deal had already been pushed by the time the vote came up, a stronger attempt at cutting the deficit.
    that's true

    after 2 years (in times like these) without a budget, the party in power finally put something on paper and published it in february

    it was the exact opposite prescription, it brazenly RAISED borrowing 20%

    it depended on impossible outyear projections of hi gdp immediately and low interest rates forever

    within days ryan came out with his radically different plan and, for whatever reason, the white house and senate almost immediately DUMPED the president's OWN budget

    the only blueprint he's put out in going on 3 years

    and yes, the RHETORIC he's been living off since the collapse (97 to 0) of his WRITTEN PLAN does indeed reverse course---violently---killing keynes across the board

    and that's kinda the point---every two weeks that go by, the movement towards AUSTERITY becomes more obvious and irresistable

    ask cuomo, moonbeam, the ram, the massachusetts state house, trenton NJ and springfield IL, bing and bobb in detroit...

    ask dan malloy of connecticut, the dem gub who just two weeks ago reenacted his very own air traffic controllers moment, firing the afscme's who refused to follow along

    ask governor dayton in minnesota---he campaigned on a tax-the-rich plank which he's now forced to back off, he tried for an alcohol tax, he's now relegated to cigarettes

    the momentum is all one way

    ask people like claire mccaskill in missouri, joe manchin in west virginia, jon tester in montana...

    they CAN'T go home without offering SOMETHING in the way of FIX for our big 3 entitlements, which will simply disappear if something significant isn't done NOW

    and it aint gonna help em much in their reelects to be tagged by folks like me as TAX RAISERS

    it's just a matter of time

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you have any idea what these "tax loopholes" are?

    There are no tax loopholes. People and corporations follow government guidelines when they pay their taxes and if they don't they are breaking the law and can then be arrested. If they are behaving in a perfectly legal manner then where and what are these "loopholes"?

    That this 'loophole" business is still being trotted out in order to create further class warfare is repellent. There will always be gullible and uninformed members of the public who will believe this foolishness and the dishonest politicians who prey on these people know it..
    Yes I do have an idea what these "tax loopholes" are, and the article calls them "tax loopholes", contrary to your asserstion that there are NO TAX LOOPHOLES, there are, and there have been since I've been alive, almost 60 years, and I am sure there were tax loopholes before that.

    Democrats want to close tax loopholes that benefit oil companies, and eliminate a tax preference that gives corporate aircraft a friendlier depreciation schedule than commercial aircraft. Additionally, Van Hollen said, Democrats were proposing to phase out tax deductions and certain credits for people making more than $500,000 a year. These would be paired with a reduction in the tax burden on lower earners, by eliminating existing limitations on their deductions.
    GOP end debt negotiations to protect tax breaks for people making $500,000+ Republicans 1'st, Economy 2'nd? - Yahoo! Answers

    Maybe you'd like to explain why we should borrow money, increase the debt of the nation, and devalue the dollar to give the money to the oil companies that are making billions in profit every quarter. I don't know of ONE oil company that is losing money. They don't need a tax break, period.
    Last edited by finebead; 07-11-11 at 08:45 AM.

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    From Bloomberg.com:

    Republicans reject Democrats’ call for more tax revenue and instead are pressing to cut entitlement programs such as Medicare and Social Security. Democrats insist even the Republicans’ proposal for a smaller deficit-cutting plan must include more taxes from higher-income Americans.
    Obama Challenges Republicans for Debt-Plan Details - Bloomberg

    Both parties have limits that they are unlikely to cross, meaning even if their leaders were to agree to such terms, their rank and file would not support those terms. A smaller deal, which would be focused largely on discretionary spending and would avoid tax hikes was supposed to be a position to which the parties could retreat in time to raise the debt ceiling if the large deal could not be achieved (IMO, always a small probability of success). Speaker Boehner pushed in that direction.

    However, now it appears that the Democrats are insisting that tax hikes be part of even a small package. If that is a firm position, then the scale of a possible deal will grow even smaller. Under such a scenario, were the deal to fall below a dollar-for-dollar match with the debt ceiling hike, Republican support could evaporate. Were tax hikes to be preserved in a smaller deal, Republican support would be limited, and it is plausible that the House might not pick up even 50 Republican votes under such a scenario. Hence, prospects for a failure to reach agreement could increase.

    Right now, I still expect a smaller deal in the $1 to $2 trillion range to be agreed. The markets also expect an agreement.

    One sign of a shift in market sentiment would be if both the equities futures/equities and Treasury prices both fell, meaning lower equities prices and higher yields. The development and then persistence of such co-movements would be a disturbing sign of a break in market sentiment.

    This morning's trading had sharply lower equities futures prices, but also a strong rise in Treasury prices, with the 10-year yield down more than 10 basis points as of 8 a.m., in a kind of flight-to-safety move driven by continuing concerns about European debt challenges. Across all maturities, yields were lower.

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    The Democrats don't really want spending cuts. The purpose of proposing tax hikes is to kill this deal. Obama probably has given up on creating an environment where job creation can occur, so he's going to find another way to blame the Republicans for this. Even the Democrats know that entitlements have to be cut. They've had their way on entitlement for 70 years, it's time they stop using them to buy votes. The problem is, the Democrat Party wouldn't have a soul in office if it weren't for entitlements and unions. They built their entire party on the General Welfare and Interstate Commerce clauses.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    You have got to be kidding me, American!!!

    The GOP leadership has been attempting to change the perameters of debt (ceiling) negotiations since they issued their Pledge to America during the 2010 midterms. When was the last time you read it?

    First, the GOP calls for $1 trillion in spending cuts before raising the debt limit. Then they insist on offsetting whatever the debt ceiling limit is raised to with matching spending cuts. Then they insist on "deep" spending cuts, but insist on no tax increases. Whose trying to kill the deal again?

    Here's a clue: EVERY TIME the Democrats have met the Republican's demands on raising the debt ceiling, the Republicans have changed the conditions of negotiations!! Go back and re-read your party's own Pledge then read both the NYTimes and the Economist articles I linked to in post #76, then come back here and dare make the claim that Democrats aren't trying to negotiate in good faith. If you still can't acknowledge that it is your own party who has "moved the goal post" on these debt ceiling negotiations at every turn, then.......we've got nothing else to discuss.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-11-11 at 11:30 AM.

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