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Thread: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by ZIRP4EVA View Post
    He wants a bigger deal that would include $1T in additional taxes without any entitlement reform.
    Incorrect.

    There is no deal yet, but the ideas under consideration include reductions in spending on the big three entitlement programs: Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. That would be a huge concession for Democrats. In return, Republicans would agree to close some big tax loopholes, reducing some deductions and other so-called spending in the tax code as part of a tax reform deal that would also lower corporate tax rates. The net effect of that tax reform plan would be an increase in tax revenue.

    As one senior administration official told me, "We need to do something unthinkable on entitlements. They need to do something unthinkable on taxes."

    Another White House official acknowledged that Democrats won’t like the proposed reductions in Social Security and Medicare (an understatement), but that the changes would be modest compared to what Republicans have proposed in the Paul Ryan budget plan.
    Obama and Boehner Debt Talks: The Grand*Bargain - Politics News - ABC News Radio

    So enough of this bull**** that the administration isn't serious about deficit reduction. They're prepared to make some serious, tough concessions. The Republicans have proved that they are not.
    Last edited by Swizz; 07-10-11 at 01:02 PM.

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Swizz, you just posted an article from Thursday.

    Reports have Obama backing away from entitlement reform last night.

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by ZIRP4EVA View Post
    Swizz, you just posted an article from Thursday.

    Reports have Obama backing away from entitlement reform last night.
    Really? I haven't heard that. Do you have a link?

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by Swizz View Post
    Really? I haven't heard that. Do you have a link?
    Oh, I know. I'd love to see a link. And surely it's on a major news outlet. Here's my latest find.

    Obama will still seek a $4 trillion debt deal despite GOP opposition, aides say - The Washington Post

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    As there seems to be some misunderstanding concerning my initial comments about negotiating process (namely some belief that I am blaming certain individuals, when I'm not), I'll provide some additional detal. In general, I am contrasting two approaches to negotiations.

    Approach 1: Each side starts from its maximum position and then the talks try to move toward some middle ground (not necessarily a midpoint, but somewhere between the two sides). This is a conventional approach. When maximum positions are not irreconcilable, it can produce agreement at some point in time.

    Approach 2: Each side offers a position that achieves the most it can for itself, but under the constraint that the proposal is designed to accommodate what the other side's core needs (thus falls short of maximum positions). Each proposal is offered with the hope that it can be sustainable. This approach requires more work, a willingness to understand and accommodate the other side's real needs, etc. It works much better when the maximum positions held by each side are truly irreconcilable. This approach can save a lot of time when the maximum positions are irreconcilable, as it avoids fruitless attempts to reconcile the irreconcilable.

    IMO, the second approach was the better one for the fiscal consolidation talks associated with the debt ceiling hike, as a fairly limited amount of time exists before the debt ceiling needs to be hiked.

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Oh, I know. I'd love to see a link. And surely it's on a major news outlet. Here's my latest find.

    Obama will still seek a $4 trillion debt deal despite GOP opposition, aides say - The Washington Post
    Well that was posted half an hour ago and confirms the administration's willingness to cut entitlements, so I'm going to assume ZIRP4EVA heard incorrectly until proven otherwise.

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I'm not blaming Congressman Boehner. His move reflects the reality of the situation of irreconcilable differences. It's a move that would not have been necessary had the negotiating process been better-designed, namely had the White House set the ground rule that each side open with a position that it felt had realistic prospect of being acceptable to the other. Then, the tax revenue piece, among some others, would have been put aside from the onset and hard bargaining toward a deal would have been underway.
    Mr. Sutherland, can anything be done in the face of the unyielding refusal of the republicans to give an inch on the tax front? I know Jerry Brown did the California budget "without" them. If they remain in lock step, can they be circumvented? Or does America just go down the toilet in the face of continued stubbornness?

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    A Republican House aide told me that the White House “started to backpedal on entitlement reforms too.” He explained, “They [the White House] had started to go back on some of the Medicare and Medicaid reforms they had previously said they were ok with.”
    WaPo

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    In the President's shoes, I'd say "Fine. Every offer we have made is now off the table. Let's take a meeting, boys and girls."

    Obama faces new obstacles in high-stakes debt talks | Reuters

    And the Republicans go first. What are they willing to concede. And I'm not saying they get to lunge across the table and ask for what I just took down. WHAT. ARE. THEY. WILLING. TO. CONCEDE. Give until it hurts, like we just did with Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

    This is just such bull****.

    Aides to Obama and Boehner had been working on a far-reaching package of spending cuts and new revenue that would have reduced deficits by $4 trillion over 10 years and cleared the way for lifting the $14.3 trillion cap on the government's borrowing capacity.

    But Boehner's move dampened hopes of any immediate compromise and raised doubts about the chances that Sunday's talks would start moving the budget debate toward an end-game.

    "Despite good-faith efforts to find common ground, the White House will not pursue a bigger debt reduction agreement without tax hikes," Boehner, the top Republican in Congress, said in a statement. "I believe the best approach may be to focus on producing a smaller measure."
    Last edited by BDBoop; 07-10-11 at 01:14 PM.

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Mr. Sutherland, can anything be done in the face of the unyielding refusal of the republicans to give an inch on the tax front? I know Jerry Brown did the California budget "without" them. If they remain in lock step, can they be circumvented?
    For this deal, very little can be expected on the tax side. A provision to eliminate ethanol subsidies might be feasible. But the Americans for Tax Reform pledge is too stringent to provide leeway. Under its formula any closure of loopholes/elimination of deductions, etc. must be completely offset e.g., via lower rates so that the overall expected revenue would not change.

    Ultimately, in a longer-term fiscal consolidation strategy, some tax revenue increases will be needed. The real battle over that will probably kick off around the time near the expiration of the 2001/2003 tax reductions.

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