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Thread: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    I don't think I've ever seen that statement before.



    And there's that "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face" attitude that's going to send us all down the ****ter. Well played. Well played, indeed.
    You are closer than you think. This is not really about honest negotiations. It is about Republicans slicing the throat of America for nothing more than political purposes. This is about Republicans, looking towards 2012, and willing to do anything, no matter how much it hurts the nation, to try and gain an advantage. Don't forget that, while Bush was in office, the debt ceiling was raised 7 times by Republicans, without any questions whatsoever. But a rubber stamp under Bush is now a demand for absolutely everything they want, with absolutely no room for negotiation whatsoever, under Obama. It can be summed up in a single word - Sabotage.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    I think the biggest news here is going sort of unnoticed: Obama favored a debt reduction package bigger than what Boehner wants. Where is the tea party outrage at the guy they just put in charge?

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    You are closer than you think. This is not really about honest negotiations. It is about Republicans slicing the throat of America for nothing more than political purposes. This is about Republicans, looking towards 2012, and willing to do anything, no matter how much it hurts the nation, to try and gain an advantage. Don't forget that, while Bush was in office, the debt ceiling was raised 7 times by Republicans, without any questions whatsoever. But a rubber stamp under Bush is now a demand for absolutely everything they want, with absolutely no room for negotiation whatsoever, under Obama. It can be summed up in a single word - Sabotage.
    Quoted for Mother Fletcher (what?! It's SUNDAY!) Truth.

    Dems dig in: GOP trying to sabotage economy on purpose - The Plum Line - The Washington Post

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    *Yawn*

    Call me when a written deal exists. Until then, I am holding to my theory that Republicans are going to stall until the 2nd of August, regardless of what happens.
    that has the potential to cause a significantly bad wall street reaction.

    it might impress parts of the Republican base, but those same parts are going to be angry even if there's a compromise at the last possible moment.

    they probably have until about July 20th to extend the ceiling with minimal consequences. it should have been done already.

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    that has the potential to cause a significantly bad wall street reaction.

    it might impress parts of the Republican base, but those same parts are going to be angry even if there's a compromise at the last possible moment.

    they probably have until about July 20th to extend the ceiling with minimal consequences. it should have been done already.
    Am I missing something. Is it only one side holding up any deal? Can we use the democratic proposed budget as a startpoint. Oh wait there has been no budget passed by the senate in nearly 3 years.

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    that has the potential to cause a significantly bad wall street reaction.

    it might impress parts of the Republican base, but those same parts are going to be angry even if there's a compromise at the last possible moment.

    they probably have until about July 20th to extend the ceiling with minimal consequences. it should have been done already.
    A bad reaction? In all probability. A significantly bad reaction? No.

    Most likely scenario is that Moody's lowers the bond rating and the markets whine for a bit. There will be no default and, in the long term, not raising the debt ceiling will inspire more confidence in American commercial paper.
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    Thanks for your awesomeness, Jeezy.

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Am I missing something. Is it only one side holding up any deal? Can we use the democratic proposed budget as a startpoint. Oh wait there has been no budget passed by the senate in nearly 3 years.
    We could start with where the Republicans left the bargaining table. $2 trillion and change in cuts on the table at that point.

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by ZIRP4EVA View Post
    Thats not accurate donsutherland1.

    In the beginning, Obama wanted a "clean" debt ceiling hike. As in no spending cuts or tax increases. Clearly that was a nonstarter given the seriousness of the deficits his budgets will create over the next ten years. And it was against the recommendations of his own deficit comittee.
    I agree that a clean debt ceiling hike was a non-starter. Fiscal consolidation is needed. The question concerned the magnitude and structure of fiscal consolidation. The parameters of each party were also widely-established. Hence, a better negotiating process would have entailed working toward fiscal consolidation that would be mutually acceptable (meaning no tax hikes but also less entitlement reform this time around) to make a credible downpayment, rather than starting from each side's maximum position. It made no sense negotiations to begin with each side stating its maximum position when there was close to zero prospect that such a position would have any chance of being accepted. This observation in no way blames Congressman Boehner. It is a critique on the overall negotiating process that was set up and pursued, which is separate from the actors involved.

    If a smaller deal gets through the house and the senate, then an Obama veto would risk default - the very think the media has been pounding the Reps on for risking.
    A smaller deal will get through the House and Senate. It won't be vetoed, as such a move would be reckless. The nation would have a credit downgrade and a long-term increase in its debt service costs were any deal vetoed. Minnesota offers a good case in point. No matter how each side will posture after a deal to re-open the State's government is concluded, each side bears direct responsibility for the increase in that state's debt service costs that will result from its credit downgrade.

    In terms of the federal deal, which I fully expect, because so much time was consumed in a negotiating process that was not well-designed, the size of fiscal consolidation will probably be smaller than what might otherwise have been achieved (probably somewhere between the size of the deal $1 to $2 trillion and the $4 trillion to $5 trillion pursued for a larger deal). There is risk that the deal might not even be viewed as credible.

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by Swizz View Post
    I think the biggest news here is going sort of unnoticed: Obama favored a debt reduction package bigger than what Boehner wants. Where is the tea party outrage at the guy they just put in charge?
    He wants a bigger deal that would include $1T in additional taxes without any entitlement reform.

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    Re: Boehner abandons goal of $4 trillion debt-reduction package

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the 2010 elections were about something relatively simple. Stop The Expansion. Stop The Spending.

    Have Taxes Increase To Match Higher Spending wasn't it.


    good for Boehner.
    I'm not blaming Congressman Boehner. His move reflects the reality of the situation of irreconcilable differences. It's a move that would not have been necessary had the negotiating process been better-designed, namely had the White House set the ground rule that each side open with a position that it felt had realistic prospect of being acceptable to the other. Then, the tax revenue piece, among some others, would have been put aside from the onset and hard bargaining toward a deal would have been underway.

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