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Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

Misterveritis said:
I am not sharing anything. Liberals do that.

Nor am I damaging the environment when I consume energy. Liberals do that too. There is no damage and there are no implications. If you believe otherwise you are free to make choices for you that are in line with your beliefs. I am fine with that.

What you don't get to do, at least not without a fight, is to control me and enslave me.
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Christians teach sharing, are they liberals?
 
UtahBill said:
you know, they say there is a commie behind every tree, and shrub, and Bush.....
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And sometimes they just might be right. You can always tell by the fingerprints. Tyranny has been the general history of mankind. So liberal, socialist, Marxist, communist...statists are all about control of the people for our benefit. In the end it always devolves to tyranny.
 
Catawba said:
You know they measure the sun's output right? It has been at a solar minimum for most of the warming period. So that rules that out. What else you got?
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You really think it is as simple as that? Awesome.
 
UtahBill said:
we are not a democracy, we are a republic, and the courts protect the rights of the minority..
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Nah..we were intended to be a Representative Republic but that died a long time ago.
 
How can you actually say we have created a clean environment. You are simply ignoring the facts for your own base ends. I'm from Cleveland, and if you haven't heard we had a river catch on fire a few times thanks to the layer of pollution on top. We live on one of the largest bodies of fresh water in the world, but we are advised to only eat our local fish a few times a month because of chemical contamination.

As far as global warming and pollution not being connected, get real. CO2 is a pollutant as well, CFC's are pollutants. These are just terms and pollutants are anything introduced to an environment that has a negative effect.
 
Catawba said:
Our pollution is a direct factor of our wasteful energy use. So you think you have the "right" to be as wasteful as you choose with our natural resources regardless of the effects of that use on others, is that right?
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Which is coming from...?
 
UtahBill said:
I thought statists were like conservatives, against change, and that conservatives don't like progressives, which you didn'tinclude in your little list...
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Let me see if I can help you out.

Conservatives are not against change. Conservatives are for constitutionally limited government. You will have to tell me what Progressives are. I believe they are generally for unconstrained government. Please clarify if you think I have it wrong.
 
UtahBill said:
not in a democracy, or a republic, but if he was a dictater, perhaps...
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If I was dictator I would be the only dictator in history to give freedom to his people and as a result rip a hole in time and space killing us all on accident.
 
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UtahBill said:
I thought statists were like conservatives, against change, and that conservatives don't like progressives, which you didn'tinclude in your little list...
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I missed a key point. Statists...they believe that the state is important. The people are less so. They enlarge the state in any way they can. The generate 80,000 plus regulations on businesses, they add more government employees at every turn. They live to enlarge the state apparatus with its power over businesses and the people.
 
Misterveritis said:
Let me see if I can help you out.

Conservatives are not against change. Conservatives are for constitutionally limited government. You will have to tell me what Progressives are. I believe they are generally for unconstrained government. Please clarify if you think I have it wrong.
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Progressives are something that the likes of Glenn Beckerhead and Rush Limpbaugh rail against....I don't actually know any progressives, personally. Could it be that they are behind the commies that are behind every tree?
 
Misterveritis said:
Let me see if I can help you out.

Conservatives are not against change. Conservatives are for constitutionally limited government. You will have to tell me what Progressives are. I believe they are generally for unconstrained government. Please clarify if you think I have it wrong.
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Actually conservatives are a right leaning group believing in traditional forms of government often predicated on religious teachings. Liberals are for limited government and protected freedoms. At least that is how it is everywhere else in the world and in the field of political science. The US and UK just happened to have confused the terms when FDR introduced the new deal legislation as a being 'liberal' instead of socialist. Just saying lol.
 
Misterveritis said:
I missed a key point. Statists...they believe that the state is important. The people are less so. They enlarge the state in any way they can. The generate 80,000 plus regulations on businesses, they add more government employees at every turn. They live to enlarge the state apparatus with its power over businesses and the people.
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I am sure that some of those rules benefit us to some extent. If we let the corporate world run things, the tax code would double in size with all the loopholes that would be added...fancy that, more holes, but it weighs more...
 
satnightpoly said:
How can you actually say we have created a clean environment. You are simply ignoring the facts for your own base ends. I'm from Cleveland, and if you haven't heard we had a river catch on fire a few times thanks to the layer of pollution on top. We live on one of the largest bodies of fresh water in the world, but we are advised to only eat our local fish a few times a month because of chemical contamination.
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And that same area is thriving today. For those not in the know, the area that caught fire (in the 1960's) is just a stones throw from the Rock and Roll HOF and new Aquarium.

Sport fishing is thriving on Lake Erie. I couldn't beging to guess how many Perch I've ate out of the lake.
 
satnightpoly said:
How can you actually say we have created a clean environment. You are simply ignoring the facts for your own base ends. I'm from Cleveland, and if you haven't heard we had a river catch on fire a few times thanks to the layer of pollution on top. We live on one of the largest bodies of fresh water in the world, but we are advised to only eat our local fish a few times a month because of chemical contamination.

As far as global warming and pollution not being connected, get real. CO2 is a pollutant as well, CFC's are pollutants. These are just terms and pollutants are anything introduced to an environment that has a negative effect.
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If you live in a sewer vote with your feet and move. I have heard of no river fires in many decades.
CO2 is a great example of governments over reaching. Since all or nearly every living thing exhales carbon dioxide then the government has the right to control everything. once you go down the road of ceding your rights to a busybody bureaucrat it is only a matter of time before you are not free any longer.

I do not know the answer. Would you say that Cleveland and it surrounding areas have been run by liberal democrats or by conservative republicans?
 
satnightpoly said:
Actually conservatives are a right leaning group believing in traditional forms of government often predicated on religious teachings. Liberals are for limited government and protected freedoms. At least that is how it is everywhere else in the world and in the field of political science. The US and UK just happened to have confused the terms when FDR introduced the new deal legislation as a being 'liberal' instead of socialist. Just saying lol.
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If you want to use the terms archaically be my guest.
 
UtahBill said:
what kind of bulbs costs $8 each and where are you buying them?
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Try Walmart, Costco, Sam's Club, and when they go on sale, but a few extra. There is infant mortality with all kinds of bulbs. Out of a standard pack of 10 curlies, I am not surprised when one quits early. But the rest of them that I installed are still burning bright 5 years later. I had CFL floods in our AZ house in the kitchen, to cut down on the heat directly over my head. But the light distribution was poor, despite there being 8 of them, so I put in new fixtures with 3 each 35W Halogen (incandescent) floods per fixture. Now I have 12 bulbs that I can aim in the direction of the dark corners, and the kitchen is a brighter place. But almost all the other lights in the house are CFL curlies.,
 
Misterveritis said:
If you live in a sewer vote with your feet and move. I have heard of no river fires in many decades.
CO2 is a great example of governments over reaching. Since all or nearly every living thing exhales carbon dioxide then the government has the right to control everything. once you go down the road of ceding your rights to a busybody bureaucrat it is only a matter of time before you are not free any longer.

I do not know the answer. Would you say that Cleveland and it surrounding areas have been run by liberal democrats or by conservative republicans?
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what would you call a liberal republican or a conservative democrat?
 
1Perry said:
And that same area is thriving today. For those not in the know, the area that caught fire (in the 1960's) is just a stones throw from the Rock and Roll HOF and new Aquarium.

Sport fishing is thriving on Lake Erie. I couldn't beging to guess how many Perch I've ate out of the lake.
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Right on about the river fires. But I would advise against eating our fish to often, as does the Ohio Department of Health. This is just one example I found quickly, you can find many more through the DNR.

http://www.epa.ohio.gov/portals/35/fishadvisory/Eat_Your_Catch.pdf
 
UtahBill said:
I am sure that some of those rules benefit us to some extent. If we let the corporate world run things, the tax code would double in size with all the loopholes that would be added...fancy that, more holes, but it weighs more...
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Maybe. The estimated compliance cost every year is greater than one trillion dollars. Do you really think businesses will stick around here and deal with more than 80,000 rules...or will anyone who can flee to a saner country do so?

Fair Tax looks good. The flat tax is okay too. I prefer the Fair Tax.
 
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UtahBill said:
Try Walmart, Costco, Sam's Club, and when they go on sale, but a few extra. There is infant mortality with all kinds of bulbs. Out of a standard pack of 10 curlies, I am not surprised when one quits early. But the rest of them that I installed are still burning bright 5 years later. I had CFL floods in our AZ house in the kitchen, to cut down on the heat directly over my head. But the light distribution was poor, despite there being 8 of them, so I put in new fixtures with 3 each 35W Halogen (incandescent) floods per fixture. Now I have 12 bulbs that I can aim in the direction of the dark corners, and the kitchen is a brighter place. But almost all the other lights in the house are CFL curlies.,
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A lot of work and expense to re-create what $2.00 worth of regular bulbs once did.
 
UtahBill said:
Try Walmart, Costco, Sam's Club, and when they go on sale, but a few extra. There is infant mortality with all kinds of bulbs. Out of a standard pack of 10 curlies, I am not surprised when one quits early. But the rest of them that I installed are still burning bright 5 years later. I had CFL floods in our AZ house in the kitchen, to cut down on the heat directly over my head. But the light distribution was poor, despite there being 8 of them, so I put in new fixtures with 3 each 35W Halogen (incandescent) floods per fixture. Now I have 12 bulbs that I can aim in the direction of the dark corners, and the kitchen is a brighter place. But almost all the other lights in the house are CFL curlies.,
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Thank you. That is good advice. I just had two new flood lights added to my favorite reading spot.
 
UtahBill said:
what would you call a liberal republican or a conservative democrat?
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The liberal Republican is generally called an Establishment Republican or an East Coast Republican.
A conservative democrat is a liar. They all vote with Reid and Pelosi. But they used to exist.
 
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