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Thread: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    So, sniping in lieu of discussion it is. Fine, we're done
    you were done the minute you started spewing myths....

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I think not. Best I can tell, libertarians want a pre-Civil War America. A pre-Marbury (1803) America, in fact. As do the imperialist conservatives who now falsely label themselves as libertarians (ashamed, I suppose by the Bush administration social liberalism).
    I am not a libertarian. I have never been a libertarian nor will I ever be. But to say that they want America to become Somalia is absurd. Libertarians and you probably disagree strongly on many subjects. Argue specific topics on the merits and forget the false generalizing. If you have specifics you wish to discuss about pre-Civil War America and libertarianism, please do so, but forget the false generalizing. If yo wish to discuss Marbury and judicial review, please do so, but forget the false generalizing. And, since I don't know who you are talking about who are supposedly conservatives who falsely label themselves as libertarian. That might make for an interesting discussion, but no one libertarian or conservative want America to become a Somalia.

    Where would you like to begin a civil discussion on any of these issues?

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Sure they do... by wanting a Somalian-style government (minimalist to the point of barely existing). Somalia is a libertarian paradise. Well... in theory
    Perhaps in your fanciful theory but please don't presume to speak for others.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    The "Third Way" has come up a few times. I assume that is a reference to Hayek.
    I actually had Tony Blair in mind.

    I read Hayek some time ago (and his classic should be taught in High Schools) but cant recall any Third Way. But if you say so I'm sure it's there.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    [QUOTE=Grant;1060055169]The use of light bulbs is so complex that it can't be handled at a local level? It's of national importance? I think you're overstating the case./QUOTE]

    Nearly 14% of all of the nation's energy goes to lighting. So no, I don't think we are overstating the case.
    Yeah I blog... shamless self promotion in 3..2..1..
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    [QUOTE=satnightpoly;1060056998]
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The use of light bulbs is so complex that it can't be handled at a local level? It's of national importance? I think you're overstating the case./QUOTE]

    Nearly 14% of all of the nation's energy goes to lighting. So no, I don't think we are overstating the case.
    So if there are two different types of light bulbs on the shelf the Americans aren't smart enough to select the one that will last longer, save them money, be more energy efficient and save the planet as well?

    I tend to disagree. Given those options most people would do what is in their best interests, and those of their country as well..

    Your figure of 14% might be quite accurate but as yet we don't have the numbers for what future differences there might be, only predictions. My personal prediction is that they will cost a lot more and will do nothing whatsoever to save the environment. But companies like GE will certainly profit.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt, replying to Karl View Post
    I am not a libertarian. I have never been a libertarian nor will I ever be. But to say that they want America to become Somalia is absurd.
    Why? Best I can tell, all they want the federal gov't to do is maintain a military. Speaking in encompassing terms (Libertarians, 'new' conservatives, etc) they support no social program that I can think of. They want the EPA [Bachmann] and the FBI [Paul] gone. They want the federal court system neutered (or selectively abolished, in certain cases [Gingrich]). They want the Civil Rights act overturned [Paul]. They want the vast majority of federal laws and regulations struck from the books. If it is not specifically mentioned in the Constitution, they don't want the feds involved in it.

    Somalia is just a metaphor for a mostly lawless country with a minimalist, ineffective government unable to exert sufficient control to enforce order (combat lawlessness), which mostly described the U.S. prior to either the Civil War or Marbury.

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt, replying to Karl View Post
    I don't know who you are talking about who are supposedly conservatives who falsely label themselves as libertarian.
    Tea Party types. Many Republicans who find the party too liberal (the free-marketers). The Ayn Rand fans. There are some here that self-ID as conservative-Libertarians, which is a contradiction in terms given their ideology (a long term Republican, typically a believer in manifest destiny, cannot become a libertarian -- despite what they may claim). These are simply cafeteria conservatives, willing to pick a few items from the libertarian buffet because they currently find Republicans insufficiently extreme on the social welfare front (while continuing to embrace the nationalistic belligerence of conservatism, an anathema to libertarianism.)

    Somehow, its become trendy among the right to call yourself a libertarian. Glenn Beck has boasted himself a libertarian as well as Mark Levin. The new addition to the conservative, wanna-be libertarians is none other than the war trumpeter, Sean Hannity.

    On his radio show on Wednesday [Oct. 2009], Hannity jumped on the bandwagon, declaring himself a libertarian. Perhaps Hannity does not understand the libertarian perspective on privacy, foreign policy and immigration. If he did, he would realize calling himself a libertarian is like calling Castro a capitalist. [...]

    In a recent interview [subscription req'd] with Pajama TV, [right wing talk radio host Mark] Levin declared:

    Im not a party guys down the line. Im a conservative guy when it comes to economic matters. Frankly, Im more libertarian.
    What Glenn Beck stole from Ron Paul Redheaded Politics

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So if there are two different types of light bulbs on the shelf the Americans aren't smart enough to select the one that will last longer, save them money, be more energy efficient and save the planet as well?
    No. However, without the federal regulations phasing out the older bulbs, some of the newer bulbs would not be on the shelf to chose from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I tend to disagree. Given those options most people would do what is in their best interests, and those of their country as well.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Why? Best I can tell, all they want the federal gov't to do is maintain a military. Speaking in encompassing terms (Libertarians, 'new' conservatives, etc) they support no social program that I can think of. They want the EPA [Bachmann] and the FBI [Paul] gone. They want the federal court system neutered (or selectively abolished, in certain cases [Gingrich]). They want the Civil Rights act overturned [Paul]. They want the vast majority of federal laws and regulations struck from the books. If it is not specifically mentioned in the Constitution, they don't want the feds involved in it.

    Somalia is just a metaphor for a mostly lawless country with a minimalist, ineffective government unable to exert sufficient control to enforce order (combat lawlessness), which mostly described the U.S. prior to either the Civil War or Marbury.


    Tea Party types. Many Republicans who find the party too liberal (the free-marketers). The Ayn Rand fans. There are some here that self-ID as conservative-Libertarians, which is a contradiction in terms given their ideology (a long term Republican, typically a believer in manifest destiny, cannot become a libertarian -- despite what they may claim). These are simply cafeteria conservatives, willing to pick a few items from the libertarian buffet because they currently find Republicans insufficiently extreme on the social welfare front (while continuing to embrace the nationalistic belligerence of conservatism, an anathema to libertarianism.)
    This could be an interesting discussion. Would you mind it I copy your post and respond in a new thread under Political Partisanship and Political Platforms or whatever it is called?

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I actually had Tony Blair in mind.

    I read Hayek some time ago (and his classic should be taught in High Schools) but cant recall any Third Way. But if you say so I'm sure it's there.
    It was a brief passage disputing the idea of a Third Way. From memory it was in a discussion about the power of the individual versus the power of state central planning. He was countering someone else's argument about a third way that takes the best of both ideas.

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