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Thread: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I do. I'm remodeling the bathroom. Old bulb quits. I grab one of the twisty ones the wife has bought. The light it emits sucks. Out it comes, and I get into the ones I had bought and put away.

    Much better.
    a secret stash of.....light bulbs?
    what else you got hidden?
    Last edited by UtahBill; 12-22-11 at 11:56 AM.
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The passive solar house I built in 1984 that has used 60% less energy than average for each year since, I use no air-conditioning, I walk to work, and for occasional long distance travel I have used a car that gets at least 50 mpg since 2001, I organically grow most of my own food, and I use high efficiency stove, refrigeratory, hot water heater, dryer, and lightbulbs.

    Soon I will have my new solar panels hooked up which will produce 1.5 kw of power and they will pay for themselves in 7 years.

    How does that compare with how energy efficient you are???
    BTW, know of any good forums related to low energy living? Conserving/efficiencies, etc.?
    I have been buying and giving away thrift store copies of Edward Mazria's book on Passive Solar. One copy went to an architect, another to a designer, and another to a remodeling contractor. I'd like to say that they have become believers, but I can't....
    The Better Buildings Initiative and Architecture 2030 should help us make some progress, tho. It took an act of congress to mandate cleaner burning cars, which led to better performance, more power, better mileage, etc. Sometimes industry has to be told what to do by govt, sometimes the public has to be told....
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Oh bull****.

    You really need to stop making stuff up out of thin air.
    Great... another ignorant post from someone pretending to know what they are talking about.

    By 2020, a second tier of restrictions would become effective, which requires all general-purpose bulbs to produce at least 45 lumens per watt (similar to current CFLs). Exemptions from the Act include reflector flood, 3-way, candelabra, colored, and other specialty bulbs.
    Phase-out of incandescent light bulbs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Now... who was it that you claimed was making stuff up ???

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    How is banning out of date lightbulbs more than an incidental extension of the power to regulate commerce? I can hardly think of a more minor application of that power....
    What is not incidental to commerce?

    Can Congress set the prices for all goods and services? Using your words, aren't prices incidental to commerce?
    Can Congress mandate the size, shape, or any other characteristic of any product (i.e. efficiency) made or sold in the U.S.? Isn't this incidental to commerce?
    Can Congress tell farmers what they must grow or not grow, how much to plant, and what price to sell it for? Isn't this incidental to commerce?
    Can Congress mandate what size home a family may build based on size of family? Isn't this incidental to commerce?

    Definition: Tyranny - oppressive power exerted by government

    Are you advocating tyranny as an incidental to commerce?

    The Founding Fathers did not intend for a tyrannical government to exist. They believed in self-government.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Of course, you are free to think that you are the arbiter of what is Constitutional and what is not. Knock yourself out! However for those that follow the rule of law, this is what the Constitution specifies:

    "ARTICLE III

    SECTION 1.

    The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts, shall hold their offices during good behaviour, and shall, at stated times, receive for their services, a compensation, which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office."

    Article III | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute
    Please allow me to revisit the concept that I am the arbiter of the Constitution. First, I have never said that I was. Second, why would you make such a claim? Third, is it not beneficial for Americans to know what is in the Constitution and understand what it means? Fourth, are Americans just supposed to say that the Courts know what they are doing and we are not to know anything about the Constitution or law and should not have any thoughts about what is right and wrong on a constitutional basis? Fifth, has history ever shown that blindly following a government could lead to tyrannical rule and enslavement of people? Sixth, if the Courts tomorrow said that slavery was once again the law of the land or that you could no longer say anything negative about the President or Congress, would you not argue against these decisions?

    As I stated earlier, this clause does not say that the Federal Courts can say that legislation of the States or of Congress is unconstitutional. Sorry, but I must leave in a few minutes and I will address judicial review this afternoon when I return.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Great... another ignorant post from someone pretending to know what they are talking about.


    Phase-out of incandescent light bulbs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Now... who was it that you claimed was making stuff up ???
    Okay, I'm busted. Sorry. I was posting before fully caffeinated.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Ahhh, ignorance is bliss isn't it.....
    Personally, I prefer being informed rather than bliss from ignorance.

    In 2020, all light bulbs will be required to produce 45 lumens per watt. Halogen bulbs don't meet that requirement, therefore they will no longer be allowed.

    Maybe you should learn a little more on the subject before spouting off about things you know nothing about.
    First some background on the new efficiency standards that were begun under the Reagan Administration:

    "There is no looming ban or phase out of incandescent bulbs. The entire hullabaloo is based on a fictitious claim manufactured by Barton.

    All major lighting manufacturers, including Philips, Sylvania and GE, currently produce and sell incandescent light bulbs that meet or exceed the new standards (with no compromise in functionality). In fact, the lighting industry helped craft the 2007 legislation with the full understanding that they could produce incandescent bulbs that meet them."

    "Legislation establishing common-sense efficiency standards for energy-using equipment has traditionally enjoyed overwhelming support from conservatives. The first such legislation was signed into law 25 years ago by President Ronald Reagan. Thanks to the legislation enacted by Reagan and similar laws signed by his successors, Americans are saving billions of dollars on their utility bills."
    There is No Light Bulb “Ban” | FrumForum


    "One common misconception about this legislation is that it outlaws incandescent bulbs. In fact it
    sets specification performance thresholds for general service incandescent lamps, a distinction
    that excludes many incandescent lighting products such as traffic signal bulbs, reflector bulbs, 3-
    way bulbs, and numerous others. It does set the following efficiency standards for lamps that
    meet the “general service incandescent” definition, which applies only to lamps that range from
    310 Watts to 2600 Watts."

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...JKT4QvrgTVK9Ww
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Personally, I prefer being informed rather than bliss from ignorance.



    First some background on the new efficiency standards that were begun under the Reagan Administration:

    "There is no looming ban or phase out of incandescent bulbs. The entire hullabaloo is based on a fictitious claim manufactured by Barton.

    All major lighting manufacturers, including Philips, Sylvania and GE, currently produce and sell incandescent light bulbs that meet or exceed the new standards (with no compromise in functionality). In fact, the lighting industry helped craft the 2007 legislation with the full understanding that they could produce incandescent bulbs that meet them."

    "Legislation establishing common-sense efficiency standards for energy-using equipment has traditionally enjoyed overwhelming support from conservatives. The first such legislation was signed into law 25 years ago by President Ronald Reagan. Thanks to the legislation enacted by Reagan and similar laws signed by his successors, Americans are saving billions of dollars on their utility bills."
    There is No Light Bulb “Ban” | FrumForum


    "One common misconception about this legislation is that it outlaws incandescent bulbs. In fact it
    sets specification performance thresholds for general service incandescent lamps, a distinction
    that excludes many incandescent lighting products such as traffic signal bulbs, reflector bulbs, 3-
    way bulbs, and numerous others. It does set the following efficiency standards for lamps that
    meet the “general service incandescent” definition, which applies only to lamps that range from
    310 Watts to 2600 Watts."

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...JKT4QvrgTVK9Ww
    Thanks. You confirmed what I had already posted.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    BTW, know of any good forums related to low energy living? Conserving/efficiencies, etc.?
    I have been buying and giving away thrift store copies of Edward Mazria's book on Passive Solar. One copy went to an architect, another to a designer, and another to a remodeling contractor. I'd like to say that they have become believers, but I can't....
    The Better Buildings Initiative and Architecture 2030 should help us make some progress, tho. It took an act of congress to mandate cleaner burning cars, which led to better performance, more power, better mileage, etc. Sometimes industry has to be told what to do by govt, sometimes the public has to be told....
    Right you are Bill, people and companies do not always act in ways that are responsible to the greater community at large. That is why we elected to have government. I am not subscribed to any forums specifically for conservation, I have several, probably outdated, books on the subject, but mostly I depend on my son to keep me updated these days. He got me hooked up with a great deal on solar panels. At your suggestion previously I have read some about The Better Buildings Initiative and Architecture 2030. I agree with you about its importance and the congressional support it will take to get it adopted.

    I really don't get the opposition to greater energy efficiency, which is directly tied our cost of everything.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Please allow me to revisit the concept that I am the arbiter of the Constitution. First, I have never said that I was. Second, why would you make such a claim? Third, is it not beneficial for Americans to know what is in the Constitution and understand what it means? Fourth, are Americans just supposed to say that the Courts know what they are doing and we are not to know anything about the Constitution or law and should not have any thoughts about what is right and wrong on a constitutional basis? Fifth, has history ever shown that blindly following a government could lead to tyrannical rule and enslavement of people? Sixth, if the Courts tomorrow said that slavery was once again the law of the land or that you could no longer say anything negative about the President or Congress, would you not argue against these decisions?

    As I stated earlier, this clause does not say that the Federal Courts can say that legislation of the States or of Congress is unconstitutional. Sorry, but I must leave in a few minutes and I will address judicial review this afternoon when I return.
    There are things I don't agree with the SC about now, such as their Citizens United decision. However, it is the rule of law and will have to be defeated through public pressure for a court challenge.

    Under US rule of law, that is the way you address decisions made by the court. Some are now challenging the new health care legislation through the Supreme Court, are they not?

    Now, if the SC rules against the legislation, will their ruling be overruled by any one else?

    I rest my case.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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