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Thread: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    That isn't how the courts work. If the light bulbs are harmful to the public in general, but there was no law against them, you couldn't sue companies for it. You can't assert a generalized injury against the people as a whole in court unless the legislature gives you a private cause of action. The legislature didn't do that here
    I'm aware. On a sidenote, I find that just gives more power to government to deal with harms.

    they created a cause of action that the government could assert.
    I'm aware and that is why I'm against it.

    That's a better way to go because you don't want a ton of nuisance suits against like hardware stores that forgot to change out their stock or whatever.
    You could just not accept those cases. /shrug.

    Really nuisances is your argument? Its better to ban products because its a bit annoying otherwise? Really?

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    yet so many people trivialize it with insanely trivial issues, like light bulbs...
    You can't be trivial with the want for more freedom and less force. You are really not a believer in the idea are you?

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Really nuisances is your argument? Its better to ban products because its a bit annoying otherwise? Really?
    Creating a private right of action would be the far MORE invasive approach. Business hates when they create a private right of action because then they get sued a ton of times, sometimes by people just wanting a payoff, where if they don't create a private right of action, so only the government (sometimes state, sometimes federal) can sue, that is much better for business. For example, in this case, the government would just send a store a letter reminding them to stop selling the outdated lightbulbs, where with a private right of action and wouldn't sue unless they refused to do it or something. Create a private right of action and they could potentially be sued 10 times instead of getting a letter. It seems like you have things backwards if you think a private right of action would be less invasive...

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    you assume that the money will be spent....
    Well, in general, the middle class does spend most of the money they get. Economically that's the difference between giving tax breaks to the rich and giving tax breaks to the middle class. The middle class tends to spend it, the rich tend to invest it. Right now what we're desperate for in the economy is consumer spending, so this hits our economy right where it hurts. But, even if they do decide to save it, invest it or pay down debt with it, that all still creates jobs too. It'll be better for the economy if more of it is spent, but the middle class typically delivers on that front.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Creating a private right of action would be the far MORE invasive approach. Business hates when they create a private right of action because then they get sued a ton of times, sometimes by people just wanting a payoff, where if they don't create a private right of action, so only the government (sometimes state, sometimes federal) can sue, that is much better for business. For example, in this case, the government would just send a store a letter reminding them to stop selling the outdated lightbulbs, where with a private right of action and wouldn't sue unless they refused to do it or something. Create a private right of action and they could potentially be sued 10 times instead of getting a letter. It seems like you have things backwards if you think a private right of action would be less invasive...
    So you are saying keeping track of lawsuits is unbelievable to consider?

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So you are saying keeping track of lawsuits is unbelievable to consider?
    Not sure what you're saying. The private right of action means way more lawsuits, way more hassle for business, way more expense for business, and has no real upside over only creating a right of action for the government. The times when creating a private right of action is the best plan is where something is so crucial that you want to error on the side of OVERenforcement. You seem like you're saying you want LESS enforcement. Well that would be the path they took- no private right of action.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Not sure what you're saying. The private right of action means way more lawsuits, way more hassle for business, way more expense for business, and has no real upside over only creating a right of action for the government. The times when creating a private right of action is the best plan is where something is so crucial that you want to error on the side of OVERenforcement. You seem like you're saying you want LESS enforcement. Well that would be the path they took- no private right of action.
    I'm saying your argument is a red-herring as there is no reason to just allow endless lawsuits for the same action.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I'm saying your argument is a red-herring as there is no reason to just allow endless lawsuits for the same action.
    Dude. That's what I am saying. That's why they didn't create a private right of action... You were initially saying that you thought individuals should just work it out in court- a private right of action. Now you agree that would be the wrong path, right?

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Dude. That's what I am saying. That's why they didn't create a private right of action... You were initially saying that you thought individuals should just work it out in court- a private right of action. Now you agree that would be the wrong path, right?
    No. You assume to much in your position.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No. You assume to much in your position.
    Maybe I don't understand your position. I thought you were arguing that people should just sort it out in court individually, no? If not, what is your position?

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