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Thread: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

  1. #331
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    the free market is often ignorant and that is why so much cheap crap is sold to them.....China survives by selling us cheap crap...our economy suffers becuase we buy cheap crap,....we waste our money on cheap crap and don't have any left to buy health insurance....I could go on....consumers are often so ignorant that it borders on stupid.
    That's the usual leftist argument against freedom. People are “stupid”, so we need to let government make decisions for us instead of letting us make our own decisions. After all, our elected officials and our bureaucrats are so much smarter than us “little people”, right?

    The sad irony is that the ones among us who use this argument, or who fall for it, by doing so, tend to prove that it is, at least in part, true; that there really are some people among us who are so stupid that it might be better to let government make their decisions for them rather than let them make their own decisions.
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    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    That's the great thing about this country, people are free to make stupid and ignorant decisions..........like pouring $500 million into an already failed solar panel company.
    that wasn't HIS money, that belonged to the taxpayers...
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Why can't the free market decide on what it wants to use?
    I'm ok with the free market deciding as soon as the cost of its operations actually includes the environmental and health damage caused to future generations. The cost of that lightbulb at the store does not take into account higher rates of respiratory problems, cancer, or the effects on future food supplies, etc.

    Pay for that cost, and you can buy whatever lightbulb you want. Deal?

    If I run a company that makes various goods but produces hazardous waste, it is cheaper for me to dump that waste on your front lawn than it is for me to dispose of it safely. Operating cheaper lets me set lower prices and gives my company a competitive edge over cleaner-operating companies. They go out of business. I thrive. 10 years from now you get cancer and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on treatment. (or your insurance company does, raising everyone's premiums)

    The free market simply does not properly account for environmental issues. Dirty is almost always cheaper... in the short run.
    Last edited by Deuce; 12-19-11 at 05:44 PM.
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  4. #334
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    That's the usual leftist argument against freedom. People are “stupid”, so we need to let government make decisions for us instead of letting us make our own decisions. After all, our elected officials and our bureaucrats are so much smarter than us “little people”, right?

    The sad irony is that the ones among us who use this argument, or who fall for it, by doing so, tend to prove that it is, at least in part, true; that there really are some people among us who are so stupid that it might be better to let government make their decisions for them rather than let them make their own decisions.
    u calling me a leftie? I vote GOP no matter how stupid the candidate is, because the other guy is usually even more stupid.
    You think I want politicians making technical desicions? No, I want trained technical people making technical decisions. People are often ignorant about anything not related to their actual job. Despite my best advice to a young sailor working for me, he goes out and buys a car that was born broken, hard to find parts for, hard to work on....he was often late for work so I told him to buy a Dart, Nova, Falcon, anything simple and I would help him keep it running so he wouldn't get into trouble again. He ignores me then whines when I won't work on his crap pile. I have been fixing my own stuff for 40 years, and other people's stuff as well, but if they go against my advice, they can just call the expensive "pros" to rip them off big time.
    Again, people are ignorant about many things, and too stubborn to seek the knowledge that will make them less ignorant, which leads to stupid....
    people who ignore good advice are the ultimate in stupid...
    and one more time, good advice comes from those trained in the field or fields in question. Rarely will it be a politician or bureaucrat...
    Oracle of Utah
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  5. #335
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Why can't the free market decide on what it wants to use?
    Because the unregulated market puts short term profits ahead of whats best for future generations that will depend on the environment to sustain itself.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I'm ok with the free market deciding as soon as the cost of its operations actually includes the environmental and health damage caused to future generations. The cost of that lightbulb at the store does not take into account higher rates of respiratory problems, cancer, or the effects on future food supplies, etc.

    Pay for that cost, and you can buy whatever lightbulb you want. Deal?

    If I run a company that makes various goods but produces hazardous waste, it is cheaper for me to dump that waste on your front lawn than it is for me to dispose of it safely. Operating cheaper lets me set lower prices and gives my company a competitive edge over cleaner-operating companies. They go out of business. I thrive. 10 years from now you get cancer and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on treatment. (or your insurance company does, raising everyone's premiums)

    The free market simply does not properly account for environmental issues. Dirty is almost always cheaper... in the short run.
    Kind of interesting, those that think public health and safety regulations are commie plot, but will swear that corporations put public health before their bottom line.

    Dishonesty, or cluelessness?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I hope so. I'll certaintly take your word for it that some test claims this. I'll see for myself at some point. Might be awhile if these bulbs are $6.00 or more.



    Any single bulb uses very little electricty in a year.



    Still, if it's a good deal, people will switch on their own.
    Apparently not you though, huh. There are alot of people who don't realize they are not saving money by buying cheap lightbulbs that waste 50% of their power making heat. We don't want to build more power plants just because some people are dumb.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Apparently not you though, huh. There are alot of people who don't realize they are not saving money by buying cheap lightbulbs that waste 50% of their power making heat. We don't want to build more power plants just because some people are dumb.
    I bought the 9 dollar bulbs. One out of six burned out in less than six months. When they guaranteed me that they will last the two or three years they claim on the box and give me cash back for the failures then I will gladly purchase them again.

  9. #339
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Apparently not you though, huh. There are alot of people who don't realize they are not saving money by buying cheap lightbulbs that waste 50% of their power making heat. We don't want to build more power plants just because some people are dumb.
    well, actually, if it is winter, that heat ain't wasted......
    Our AZ house, tho, is a prime example of where CFL's are useful. The air conditioning bills in the summer can be high, and our kitchen had 8 of the 75 watt floods. Felt like direct sunlight on my head with the thinning hair....
    Replacing them with CFL's made a considerable difference.
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I bought the 9 dollar bulbs. One out of six burned out in less than six months. When they guaranteed me that they will last the two or three years they claim on the box and give me cash back for the failures then I will gladly purchase them again.
    I have seen the CFL's at great sale prices at Sam's Club and the local utility in AZ donated a ton of them to Goodwill, and they sell them dirt cheap....
    they have the floods equivalent ot 65watts, the curlies at 3 wattage ratings, and the enclosed curlies that don't look like curlies for those who can't stand to look at the curlies...
    My son put in some LED lights in the few places that are hard to get to, and I will likely do that at my Utah house where I need a really tall ladder to get to a couple of fixtures...but not til the curlies burn out....
    Oracle of Utah
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