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Thread: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    By what authority does the federal government get involved in any decision I choose to make about how much water I will use, how much electricity I will use or anything else? This is tyranny. Nothing less.
    The govt should just charge us more for using more, whether it be water, electricity, gas, whatever....
    Anybody exceeding a pre-determined average gets to pay higher rates for higher usage...
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    The govt should just charge us more for using more, whether it be water, electricity, gas, whatever....
    Anybody exceeding a pre-determined average gets to pay higher rates for higher usage...
    You speak from a viewpoint of scarcity. Let's go the other way. Get out of the way of the free enterprise system and you can have all you want.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    You speak from a viewpoint of scarcity. Let's go the other way. Get out of the way of the free enterprise system and you can have all you want.
    The free enterprise system is a myth. Someone has to pay eventually for the inefficient ways we produce, transport, and use our energy resources.
    "all we want" means the greedy can waste limited resources, and/or use to excess the dirty resources we have to the point that we pollute the air and water....is that what you want? We can have plenty of energy to use with out wasting it. Efficiencies make sense to most people, how about you?
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Actually, Mel Gibson was not preparing to go to war when he said FREEDOM!!! He was preparing to die.

    I posted a definition of tyranny earlier in this thread. I stand by my beliefs.
    If your definition of tyranny includes energy efficiency standards I don't know what the hell to tell you. It must suck to think every aspect of your life is already controlled tyrannically. My God man, the government even tells you that your car must have seat belts installed. The horror. Did you know that Big Government also decides what time it is? You're also legally prevented from selling people orange juice contaminated by lead... how awful.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    If your definition of tyranny includes energy efficiency standards I don't know what the hell to tell you. It must suck to think every aspect of your life is already controlled tyrannically. My God man, the government even tells you that your car must have seat belts installed. The horror. Did you know that Big Government also decides what time it is? You're also legally prevented from selling people orange juice contaminated by lead... how awful.
    I appreciate your sarcasm and certainly recognize it as such. Naturally, a definition of tyranny does not include the words energy or efficiency. If you do not know what it means, then please go back in the messages as I gave one. Thanks. Have a pleasant evening.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    The free enterprise system is a myth.
    Don't tell me, wait! Let me guess...government school educated? I got it right?
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Someone has to pay eventually for the inefficient ways we produce, transport, and use our energy resources.
    What? You pay for the things you want to use or own.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    "all we want" means...
    Means all that we want. If you can afford it and you want it then go for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    the greedy can waste limited resources,
    Most resources are limited by government intervention. Get the government out of the way and let the market provide whatever the market wants to buy.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    and/or use to excess the dirty resources we have to the point that we pollute the air and water....is that what you want?
    What make you think that government induced scarcity is cleaner than market produced plenty?
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    We can have plenty of energy to use with out wasting it. Efficiencies make sense to most people, how about you?
    Efficiency or government induced scarcity? We ought to waste the least expensive resources and conserve the most expensive. Those will change over time unless the government gets involved. Market-created plenty is far preferred to government-induced scarcity for most people, how about you?

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Don't tell me, wait! Let me guess...government school educated? I got it right?

    What? You pay for the things you want to use or own.

    Means all that we want. If you can afford it and you want it then go for it.

    Most resources are limited by government intervention. Get the government out of the way and let the market provide whatever the market wants to buy.

    What make you think that government induced scarcity is cleaner than market produced plenty?

    Efficiency or government induced scarcity? We ought to waste the least expensive resources and conserve the most expensive. Those will change over time unless the government gets involved. Market-created plenty is far preferred to government-induced scarcity for most people, how about you?
    I can't bring myself to drink the same koolaid you do....free markets don't exist, wall street is the new face of organized crime, and congress is complicit. OTOH, if congress didn't regulate business, then business would screw the ordinary folk just like they did when the robber barons were running this country.
    I never said anything about scarcity, that is YOUR mantra....
    Wasting the resources of the USA by itself is bad, but the pollution involved makes it worse.
    The world you want will never exist. Sorry to be the one to educate you about this, but the trend is towards efficiencies. It has been for a long time. Results are seen in much cleaner air and water than just 40 years ago...
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I can't bring myself to drink the same koolaid you do
    Clearly the kool-aid you are drinking is more, uh, statist. Got it.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    ....free markets don't exist,
    Granted. But they should. And they should be way more free than they are today.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    wall street is the new face of organized crime,
    Uh-huh.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    and congress is complicit.
    S. Clemens once wrote that the Congress is our only native criminal class ("It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.")
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    OTOH, if congress didn't regulate business, then business would screw the ordinary folk just like they did when the robber barons were running this country.
    Nonsense. Who owns most businesses these days?
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I never said anything about scarcity, that is YOUR mantra....
    You begin with a mindset of scarcity that must be managed by government. I begin with a mindset that the free market, unhindered by government, will give us all that we might ever want to purchase.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Wasting the resources of the USA by itself is bad,
    It depends on what you mean. We should waste the things that are cheap and conserve the things that are not. It is not bad at all. It is appropriate.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    but the pollution involved makes it worse.
    What does pollution have to do with scarcity or plenty? Nothing, is the correct answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    The world you want will never exist.
    "Some people see things as they are and say why? I dream things that never were and say why not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Sorry to be the one to educate you about this, but the trend is towards efficiencies.
    What does that have to do with government-induced scarcity?
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    It has been for a long time. Results are seen in much cleaner air and water than just 40 years ago...
    Do you believe the government's control of everything will help us find utopia?
    Last edited by Misterveritis; 07-21-11 at 11:56 PM.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    It isn't who owns the businesses, it is who runs them...and the fact that the law protects them from liability of thier misdeeds....
    Govt control, no, govt involvement, yes...
    right now govt only controls the ignorant masses, but the corporate world owns congress...
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    I appreciate your sarcasm and certainly recognize it as such. Naturally, a definition of tyranny does not include the words energy or efficiency. If you do not know what it means, then please go back in the messages as I gave one. Thanks. Have a pleasant evening.
    But this is what happened. Energy efficiency standards were set for lightbulbs. Some older technology incandescent bulbs can't meet this standard, but newer incandescent bulbs are able to and CFL/LED bulbs meet it easily.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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