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Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

Somalia would be the dream state, hardly any public health regulations whatsoever!

It's either Somalia or nothing?

So lt the government have its way with light bulbs, mattress inspectors, and no gardens in the front yard or its Somalia redux.

There is no reason to become hysterical over light bulbs.
 
It is only 80,000 plus regulations. But don't worry. We have two and a half million busybody bureaucrats dreaming new ways to strangle any surviving American businesses. Eventually every company that can leave will leave.

And they are certainly being welcomed elsewhere. At one time the US would compete for companies and businesses. Now they discourage them, thinking perhaps there is a "Third Way". Or perhaps a fourth. Who really knows anymore?
 
When we were kids, not knowing better, we used to roll the mercury around in our hands from a broken thermometer, with no ill effects. Glad we didn't try eating it!
way back, they thought it would cure VD, and drank it....
 
Somalia would be the dream state, hardly any public health regulations whatsoever!

Why do you continue to practice the Obamaism of hyperbolic liberal rhetoric? No one here wants America to become a Somalia which is not a dream state. You are just being ridiculous like the extreme leftwing President.
 
Somalia would be the dream state, hardly any public health regulations whatsoever!
Some people are ill suited to live lives of freedom. I get it. You need not keep reminding me that you are one of them.
 
And they are certainly being welcomed elsewhere. At one time the US would compete for companies and businesses. Now they discourage them, thinking perhaps there is a "Third Way". Or perhaps a fourth. Who really knows anymore?
The "Third Way" has come up a few times. I assume that is a reference to Hayek.
 
Considering that the new bulbs last much longer than the old ones, and use much less electricity on top of it, consumers are actually saving money. the savings for consumers is estimated to be about 81 billion dollars.

Anyone familiar with these bubs knows the claims are untrue.

The government does not save anyone money. It just doesn't happen. Instead you should be asking yourself who benefits from these laws and then follow the money.

I cant believe how people continue to fall for these scams.
 
[...] There is no reason to become hysterical over light bulbs.
I would agree, but it seems that there is no reasoning with hysterical conservatives.
 
Why do you continue to practice the Obamaism of hyperbolic liberal rhetoric? No one here wants America to become a Somalia [...]
Sure they do... by wanting a Somalian-style government (minimalist to the point of barely existing). Somalia is a libertarian paradise. Well... in theory :)
 
Sure they do... by wanting a Somalian-style government (minimalist to the point of barely existing). Somalia is a libertarian paradise. Well... in theory :)

This is pure and utter nonsense. You have bought into the lie.
 
This is pure and utter nonsense. You have bought into the lie.
I think not. Best I can tell, libertarians want a pre-Civil War America. A pre-Marbury (1803) America, in fact. As do the imperialist conservatives who now falsely label themselves as libertarians (ashamed, I suppose by the Bush administration social liberalism).
 
I think not. Best I can tell, libertarians want a pre-Civil War America. A pre-Marbury (1803) America, in fact. As do the imperialist conservatives who now falsely label themselves as libertarians (ashamed, I suppose by the Bush administration social liberalism).

the "best you can tell" isn't very good at all... but please, do continue believing any myth you want to
 
the "best you can tell" isn't very good at all... but please, do continue believing any myth you want to
You're welcome to find particular fault in my estimation, which could then be discussed. Of course, you and others are also welcome to continue to snipe, but I don't think that will illustrate whatever libertarian positions you all are trying (not really) to defend.

Since this appears to be a libertarian thread (gov't rules on light bulbs) I can't see where a discussion on libertarian visions of the country would be off topic (especially since 69 pages of light bulbs has probably covered that particular aspect of libertarianism).
 
You're welcome to find particular fault in my estimation, which could then be discussed. Of course, you and others are also welcome to continue to snipe, but I don't think that will illustrate whatever libertarian positions you all are trying (not really) to defend.

Since this appears to be a libertarian thread (gov't rules on light bulbs) I can't see where a discussion on libertarian visions of the country would be off topic (especially since 69 pages of light bulbs has probably covered that particular aspect of libertarianism).
I do find fault with you position on libertarians...primarily because your entire position is false.
libertarians do not want somalia or pre-civil war US.. but whatever, it's not like you can or will change your tune on the matter...
 
I do find fault with you position on libertarians...primarily because your entire position is false.
libertarians do not want somalia or pre-civil war US.. but whatever, it's not like you can or will change your tune on the matter...
So, sniping in lieu of discussion it is. Fine, we're done :)
 
I think not. Best I can tell, libertarians want a pre-Civil War America. A pre-Marbury (1803) America, in fact. As do the imperialist conservatives who now falsely label themselves as libertarians (ashamed, I suppose by the Bush administration social liberalism).

I am not a libertarian. I have never been a libertarian nor will I ever be. But to say that they want America to become Somalia is absurd. Libertarians and you probably disagree strongly on many subjects. Argue specific topics on the merits and forget the false generalizing. If you have specifics you wish to discuss about pre-Civil War America and libertarianism, please do so, but forget the false generalizing. If yo wish to discuss Marbury and judicial review, please do so, but forget the false generalizing. And, since I don't know who you are talking about who are supposedly conservatives who falsely label themselves as libertarian. That might make for an interesting discussion, but no one libertarian or conservative want America to become a Somalia.

Where would you like to begin a civil discussion on any of these issues?
 
Sure they do... by wanting a Somalian-style government (minimalist to the point of barely existing). Somalia is a libertarian paradise. Well... in theory :)

Perhaps in your fanciful theory but please don't presume to speak for others.
 
The "Third Way" has come up a few times. I assume that is a reference to Hayek.

I actually had Tony Blair in mind.

I read Hayek some time ago (and his classic should be taught in High Schools) but cant recall any Third Way. But if you say so I'm sure it's there.
 
The use of light bulbs is so complex that it can't be handled at a local level? It's of national importance? I think you're overstating the case./QUOTE]

Nearly 14% of all of the nation's energy goes to lighting. So no, I don't think we are overstating the case.
 
The use of light bulbs is so complex that it can't be handled at a local level? It's of national importance? I think you're overstating the case./QUOTE]

Nearly 14% of all of the nation's energy goes to lighting. So no, I don't think we are overstating the case.

So if there are two different types of light bulbs on the shelf the Americans aren't smart enough to select the one that will last longer, save them money, be more energy efficient and save the planet as well?

I tend to disagree. Given those options most people would do what is in their best interests, and those of their country as well..

Your figure of 14% might be quite accurate but as yet we don't have the numbers for what future differences there might be, only predictions. My personal prediction is that they will cost a lot more and will do nothing whatsoever to save the environment. But companies like GE will certainly profit.
 
I am not a libertarian. I have never been a libertarian nor will I ever be. But to say that they want America to become Somalia is absurd.
Why? Best I can tell, all they want the federal gov't to do is maintain a military. Speaking in encompassing terms (Libertarians, 'new' conservatives, etc) they support no social program that I can think of. They want the EPA [Bachmann] and the FBI [Paul] gone. They want the federal court system neutered (or selectively abolished, in certain cases [Gingrich]). They want the Civil Rights act overturned [Paul]. They want the vast majority of federal laws and regulations struck from the books. If it is not specifically mentioned in the Constitution, they don't want the feds involved in it.

Somalia is just a metaphor for a mostly lawless country with a minimalist, ineffective government unable to exert sufficient control to enforce order (combat lawlessness), which mostly described the U.S. prior to either the Civil War or Marbury.

I don't know who you are talking about who are supposedly conservatives who falsely label themselves as libertarian.
Tea Party types. Many Republicans who find the party too liberal (the free-marketers). The Ayn Rand fans. There are some here that self-ID as conservative-Libertarians, which is a contradiction in terms given their ideology (a long term Republican, typically a believer in manifest destiny, cannot become a libertarian -- despite what they may claim). These are simply cafeteria conservatives, willing to pick a few items from the libertarian buffet because they currently find Republicans insufficiently extreme on the social welfare front (while continuing to embrace the nationalistic belligerence of conservatism, an anathema to libertarianism.)

Somehow, it’s become trendy among the right to call yourself a libertarian. Glenn Beck has boasted himself a libertarian as well as Mark Levin. The new addition to the conservative, wanna-be libertarians is none other than the war trumpeter, Sean Hannity.

On his radio show on Wednesday [Oct. 2009], Hannity jumped on the bandwagon, declaring himself a libertarian. Perhaps Hannity does not understand the libertarian perspective on privacy, foreign policy and immigration. If he did, he would realize calling himself a libertarian is like calling Castro a capitalist. [...]

In a recent interview [subscription req'd] with Pajama TV, [right wing talk radio host Mark] Levin declared:

“I’m not a party guys down the line. I’m a conservative guy when it comes to economic matters. Frankly, I’m more libertarian.”

What Glenn Beck stole from Ron Paul « Redheaded Politics
 
So if there are two different types of light bulbs on the shelf the Americans aren't smart enough to select the one that will last longer, save them money, be more energy efficient and save the planet as well?
No. However, without the federal regulations phasing out the older bulbs, some of the newer bulbs would not be on the shelf to chose from.

I tend to disagree. Given those options most people would do what is in their best interests, and those of their country as well.
:lamo
 
Why? Best I can tell, all they want the federal gov't to do is maintain a military. Speaking in encompassing terms (Libertarians, 'new' conservatives, etc) they support no social program that I can think of. They want the EPA [Bachmann] and the FBI [Paul] gone. They want the federal court system neutered (or selectively abolished, in certain cases [Gingrich]). They want the Civil Rights act overturned [Paul]. They want the vast majority of federal laws and regulations struck from the books. If it is not specifically mentioned in the Constitution, they don't want the feds involved in it.

Somalia is just a metaphor for a mostly lawless country with a minimalist, ineffective government unable to exert sufficient control to enforce order (combat lawlessness), which mostly described the U.S. prior to either the Civil War or Marbury.


Tea Party types. Many Republicans who find the party too liberal (the free-marketers). The Ayn Rand fans. There are some here that self-ID as conservative-Libertarians, which is a contradiction in terms given their ideology (a long term Republican, typically a believer in manifest destiny, cannot become a libertarian -- despite what they may claim). These are simply cafeteria conservatives, willing to pick a few items from the libertarian buffet because they currently find Republicans insufficiently extreme on the social welfare front (while continuing to embrace the nationalistic belligerence of conservatism, an anathema to libertarianism.)

This could be an interesting discussion. Would you mind it I copy your post and respond in a new thread under Political Partisanship and Political Platforms or whatever it is called?
 
I actually had Tony Blair in mind.

I read Hayek some time ago (and his classic should be taught in High Schools) but cant recall any Third Way. But if you say so I'm sure it's there.

It was a brief passage disputing the idea of a Third Way. From memory it was in a discussion about the power of the individual versus the power of state central planning. He was countering someone else's argument about a third way that takes the best of both ideas.
 
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