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Thread: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Sure it has. Can you choose to buy solar powered Maglites?
    Sure I can if they are available, just as I can choose to travel in space or have an underwater residence. Your point is rather obscure and tends to just take up space.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Really??? Did someone else post a quote from a recently published peer reviewed scientific study verifying that broken CFL bulbs emit mercury beyond recommended levels ?????
    Did anyone argue that they don't? In fact we were discussing the issue of mercury, particularly why it was not analogous to leaded gasoline.

    The Gill School of Debate. Can't win an argument? Pretend someone said something, disprove it and declare victory.

    Yes, as a matter of fact you did.
    You know, I can actually cite what I was replying to. You really should wrap your deceit in better clothing.

    Note what I was replying to:

    Give me a guesstimate on how many EVIL incandescent light bulbs you have broken over your lifetime?
    Hmmm. Since when were incandescent CLFs?

    Gill, try to fail less often. You're embarrassing the forum.

    I get you don't really have any skills here, but try to at least work on lying better. I know exactly what I replied to. And Bad was asking specifically about incandescent, not CLFs. So you saying I said CFLs have filaments when I was not talking about CFLs is not only serious dishonesty, but a really pathetic attempt to get a revenge hit on me.

    Disagreement does not equal "hate".
    True, but obvious, blatant fabrications meant to get revenge hits does. You clearly took the time to search what I wrote, read the post and then cited it. You have no excuse to say you didn't read what I was replying to. Therefore, the sole conclusion is here is you deliberately removed context, lied about what I was talking about and then attacked me on saying something I never did. That is a serious sign of hate.

    Do you exhibit this persecution complex in your real life like you do here on DP???
    See above. I'm not the one who deliberately lies about someone's post, completely removes the context and then bashes them for something they never said. You are.

    Watch: you're going to flee from this thread after I pointed out how you are not only a spiteful person, but a spiteful liar. You're going to pretend like you never made that argument rather then own up to being a liar.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 07-14-11 at 02:55 AM.
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Sure you can. Finding one, however, might be difficult.
    ...so you can't.

    Sure I can if they are available
    But they're not so you can't. ZOMG your freedom to choose is being limited!!!

    Also I'm sure someone has but has anyone pointed out that these regulations were solely regarding efficiency standards for incandescents which means that you will still be able to buy your beloved crappy lightbulbs?

    Finally, who here has pointed out that this had bipartisan support last time it was passed?
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    I hope so. If the car you're driving still pollutes our land and air and we have an alternative that's faster, uses only green fuels, stronger, safer and better in every way possible, I certainly hope the government bans the old ones.
    Even though I produce corn and E-85 has nearly tripled farmers profits it was a complete failure. And I doubt ill ever drive a hybrid escalade in 100 years.
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That's right. It was the citizens of the States involved which engineered the clean-up, which is as it should be. First by neighborhoods, then by counties and then by States. The best government is local government. and if your county chooses to ban light bulbs, for example, after serious debate, then they can do so.
    Then what is your problem with the ban then? The issue was debated by elected representatives from every state and congressional district in the country back in 2007 when the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 was passed by congress. What you are saying should have happened is exactly what did happen.

    Moreover, we are one of the last, if not the last, industrialized nations in the world to ban them because they are horribly inefficient. I really don't get you guys on this. We generate most of our electricity in the United States with coal. To get that coal, mining companies are literally blowing up entire mountains in Appalachia. This has destroyed over 2000 square miles of forest in the east. It has destroyed thousands of miles of mountain streams and rivers. To power our homes and businesses we are literally turning mountains like this:



    Into this:



    That is literally the environmental costs of powering our homes and businesses. The people that blow those mountains up for the coal are the ones that want us to repeal the ban on incandescent bulbs. They are the ones that are against energy efficiency mandates. They are the ones that are against environment legislation. Those are the guys you are siding with here. I don't understand how this issue is even controversial. If banning incandescent bulbs results in us using less coal than we other wise would, and it will, and thus results in less mountains being literally blown up to get to that coal, then what is the problem? Should we destroy are remaining wild-lands just so you can buy 100 year old inefficient light bulb technology?
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 07-14-11 at 11:01 AM.
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    You left out the third photo in the series........how the land looks after it has been recovered.



    Kentucky now has the largest elk herd in the eastern U.S., courtesy of reclaimed coal mine land where they thrive. Cows obviously love it too.

    And you are dead wrong that electric companies are the ones championing incandescent bulbs. My electric co-op has an obvious interest in coal since all of the electricity they sell comes from it, but they regularly hand out free CFL bulbs and publish articles each month in their magazine on saving electricity. They perform energy audits and give rebates to customers that buy energy efficient appliances. They, as well as most Americans, are all for energy efficiency, we just don't like being forced to buy something we don't like.

    I find it funny that many so-called environmentalists are championing the mass production of a product with mercury in it after they have railed against it for many years.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You left out the third photo in the series........how the land looks after it has been recovered.

    Kentucky now has the largest elk herd in the eastern U.S., courtesy of reclaimed coal mine land where they thrive. Cows obviously love it too.

    And you are dead wrong that electric companies are the ones championing incandescent bulbs. My electric co-op has an obvious interest in coal since all of the electricity they sell comes from it, but they regularly hand out free CFL bulbs and publish articles each month in their magazine on saving electricity. They perform energy audits and give rebates to customers that buy energy efficient appliances. They, as well as most Americans, are all for energy efficiency, we just don't like being forced to buy something we don't like.

    I find it funny that many so-called environmentalists are championing the mass production of a product with mercury in it after they have railed against it for many years.
    Do you believe that land is somehow better off after it's been wrecked by a mining operation? That's what it appears you're trying to say.

    The point for me is, why? This is not a matter of freedom. If the government bans an obsolete technology because it's horribly inefficient they're not harming American freedom, they're removing an horribly inefficient tech from the marketplace. That's all. It's no different than banning a faulty child carseat. There are standards that must be met. If you can't meet them, tough for you.
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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You left out the third photo in the series........how the land looks after it has been recovered.



    Kentucky now has the largest elk herd in the eastern U.S., courtesy of reclaimed coal mine land where they thrive. Cows obviously love it too.
    I realize that they reclaim the land. Basically the end result is a mountain is turned into a hill with a thin layer of soil spread back over it. The mountain, streams in the area, and so on, gone forever. On balance, its an environmental catastrophe. There is a large elk herd in Arkansas in the Ozark National forest and along the Buffalo National River. This herd has thrived without having to allow mining companies blowing up the mountains there. They are now reintroducing elk into southern Missouri as well on National Forest land.

    And you are dead wrong that electric companies are the ones championing incandescent bulbs. My electric co-op has an obvious interest in coal since all of the electricity they sell comes from it, but they regularly hand out free CFL bulbs and publish articles each month in their magazine on saving electricity. They perform energy audits and give rebates to customers that buy energy efficient appliances. They, as well as most Americans, are all for energy efficiency, we just don't like being forced to buy something we don't like.
    I did not say electric utilities, I said coal mining companies. Electrical utilities are usually behind greater efficiency, even providing bill credits for installing energy efficient windows, and more energy efficient a/c units.

    I find it funny that many so-called environmentalists are championing the mass production of a product with mercury in it after they have railed against it for many years.
    The amount of mercury in compact fluorescent bulbs pails in comparison to the amount of mercury released by coal power plants.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    Do you believe that land is somehow better off after it's been wrecked by a mining operation? That's what it appears you're trying to say.

    The point for me is, why? This is not a matter of freedom. If the government bans an obsolete technology because it's horribly inefficient they're not harming American freedom, they're removing an horribly inefficient tech from the marketplace. That's all. It's no different than banning a faulty child carseat. There are standards that must be met. If you can't meet them, tough for you.
    I'm saying the land is just as good after being reclaimed as it was before being mined.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Then what is your problem with the ban then?
    Because they are taking a local problem and handing it over to the Feds.
    The issue was debated by elected representatives from every state and congressional district in the country back in 2007 when the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 was passed by congress. What you are saying should have happened is exactly what did happen.
    No, the responsibilities stopped being local and the responsibilities transferred out of the hands of the local people who can best judge what's going on in their area.

    Moreover, we are one of the last, if not the last, industrialized nations in the world to ban them because they are horribly inefficient.
    I don't think that's a good enough reason. The rest of the world is not necessarily cutting edge on anything.
    I really don't get you guys on this. We generate most of our electricity in the United States with coal. To get that coal, mining companies are literally blowing up entire mountains in Appalachia. This has destroyed over 2000 square miles of forest in the east. It has destroyed thousands of miles of mountain streams and rivers. To power our homes and businesses we are literally turning mountains like this:
    There should be a diversity of energy but the Feds won;t allow it. The people of Alaska might want to send their oil to the lower 48 but the Feds say No. And that's what happens when you give outsiders control over your resources. They well act politically in their national interests rather than acting for the people with local interests.




    That is literally the environmental costs of powering our homes and businesses. The people that blow those mountains up for the coal are the ones that want us to repeal the ban on incandescent bulbs.
    Do you have any support for this claim? Just who are these people? Can you name some names?

    They are the ones that are against energy efficiency mandates. They are the ones that are against environment legislation. Those are the guys you are siding with here. I don't understand how this issue is even controversial. If banning incandescent bulbs results in us using less coal than we other wise would, and it will, and thus results in less mountains being literally blown up to get to that coal, then what is the problem? Should we destroy are remaining wild-lands just so you can buy 100 year old inefficient light bulb technology?
    This is getting into areas of hysteria.

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