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Thread: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post

    China Mexico India
    perhaps you recall Bhopal or the massive air pollution in Mexico city
    Yes, I do recall the tragedy of Bhopal and am aware that it never happened again. Do we really want to get into a discussion regarding the number of deaths caused by governments vs. the number of deaths caused by private companies?

    There is massive pollution in most third world nations, and there are no lack of laws. Education is the key.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Environmental Policy does not result from some decree by Caesar, it results from citizens petitioning their government to regulate polluters. When the Cuyahoga River caught fire several times in the late 60s,
    Once and it was a minor fire happening just after the city had committed 100 million to clean it up.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post

    China Mexico India
    perhaps you recall Bhopal or the massive air pollution in Mexico city
    For the most part industries do not make the decisions in these countries, the government does.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant
    .......Your FREEDOM to CHOOSE.......disappears a bit more with every piece of Democrat legislation.........
    It disappears with all kinds of things that limit production. Maybe you should complain to Maglite for limiting your freedom of choice for not producing a solar powered flashlight?
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    It disappears with all kinds of things that limit production. Maybe you should complain to Maglite for limiting your freedom of choice for not producing a solar powered flashlight?
    No bureaucrat has either banned solar power flashlights, yet, nor has any bureaucrat demanded they be produced, yet. Ergo, my freedom of choice has not been effected. That remains a matter between Maglite and me, and if I choose to complain to them I shall, and all without government intervention.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There is massive pollution in most third world nations, and there are no lack of laws. Education is the key.
    No lack of laws? Kenya, with the most advanced constitution, perhaps most transparent government (second only, maybe, to SA) and relatively limited corruption... will institute environmental regulations for industries in ~4 years, as scheduled in the constitution. It dumps nearly untreated sewege into Lake Victoria - to some extent because the Lake is owned by several countries and, as a "common", is screwed. Most countries here in Africa have nothing in the way of environmental laws. Fortunately, without having undergone industrialization, the pollution is limited. Mining, waste disposal and sewage are the majority of problems. Aside from the aforementioned sources, the major sources are foreign-funded conventional agricultural schemes, especially cut-flower (for euro export) greenhouses. We can hope that, before industrialization occurs, laws will be in place and they will be enforced (unlike Costa Rica).

    Democracy favors the environment. Our worst pollution (globally) occurs under tyranny in indistrialized nations (where people do not have the right to petition the government for environmental action). We need world democracy to end wars and to halt global pollution - DPT for the win.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    It disappears with all kinds of things that limit production.
    ....and with every piece of Democrat legislation ever written........

    Maybe you should complain to Maglite for limiting your freedom of choice for not producing a solar powered flashlight?
    Maybe I should send men with guns to Maglite's front door.......and demand they start producing it......

    .......oh wait.....Im not the Liberal Nanny State Government.
    .
    .
    .
    .

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Ergo, my freedom of choice has not been effected.
    Sure it has. Can you choose to buy solar powered Maglites?
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Sure it has. Can you choose to buy solar powered Maglites?
    Sure you can. Finding one, however, might be difficult.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    No lack of laws? Kenya, with the most advanced constitution, perhaps most transparent government (second only, maybe, to SA) and relatively limited corruption... will institute environmental regulations for industries in ~4 years, as scheduled in the constitution. It dumps nearly untreated sewege into Lake Victoria - to some extent because the Lake is owned by several countries and, as a "common", is screwed. Most countries here in Africa have nothing in the way of environmental laws. Fortunately, without having undergone industrialization, the pollution is limited. Mining, waste disposal and sewage are the majority of problems. Aside from the aforementioned sources, the major sources are foreign-funded conventional agricultural schemes, especially cut-flower (for euro export) greenhouses. We can hope that, before industrialization occurs, laws will be in place and they will be enforced (unlike Costa Rica).

    Democracy favors the environment. Our worst pollution (globally) occurs under tyranny in indistrialized nations (where people do not have the right to petition the government for environmental action). We need world democracy to end wars and to halt global pollution - DPT for the win.
    I said "laws" not environmental laws, and my point was that many of these laws do the people no good unless they are accompanied by an educated populace. I think its safe to say that Kenya has tons of laws, many of which make no sense whatsoever but are nonetheless enforceable.

    I think we can forget about "world democracy" when even the American people, who were among the those who have benefited most from democracy, protested strongly with its introductions to Iraq and Afghanistan, and we can safely forget about Western Europe entertaining any notion about "world democracy" as well. Who's left?

    It all begins locally and through education. Given their records, and Lord Acton's insightful observation about power, I would never trust any government.

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