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Thread: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Polotick View Post
    It was incremental until 9/11. Then Americans flocked to the Alter of False Safety by the millions. Now it can be openly rampant under the guise of being good for us.
    Remember that biker who died recently protesting the use of motor cycle helmets? NY motorcyclist dies on ride protesting helmet law - Yahoo! News

    I have to admit to first smirking at the irony of it all but now I realize that this guy died just as much for human rights and freedoms as a soldier on a battlefield.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Polotick View Post
    The US government has indeed mandated the hell out of the auto industry. Open the hood of your car, the evidence is right there.

    More importantly, the people are mandating it in they way they purchase. More and more are buying hybrids and so on.
    Of course they have, and the quality of life in the United States is much better for it. Visit a nation that doesn't have all those "onerous environmental regulations" and breath their air. The more fuel efficient our transportation is and the more energy efficient our homes and business are, the more economically competitive we will be and the better are over all quality of life will be. Our economic competition knows this and they are acting. In some areas, such as pollution control, they are playing catch up to us. In other areas, like energy efficiency, they are rapidly trying to pull ahead of us.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you really give a **** what the Chinese think?

    It's the Chinese who are fighting and dying and emigrating to get the freedoms the democracies took for granted. Do you think they prefer being told what light bulbs to put in their lamps or motor scooters they can ride?

    Once these regulations start, and more power rests in the hands of the bureaucrats, do you feel they will somehow magically stop?
    That's where we have an advantage over the Chinese. If we don't like our government, we can vote in a different one come the election. However, actually having spent time in China, the average Chinese citizen is very happy that their government is finally mandating stronger pollution controls. You see when you live in a country without environmental regulations, this is what you get outside your window:



    Those regulations you seem to hate are the differences between living in a country whose cities look like that, or this:



    It isn't just magic that in our major cities you can look up on a clear day and see a blue sky. It's just not by chance that you can go to a park here and hear birds, or swim in the majority of lakes and rivers here without literally risking your life. You can thank those green regulations for it.

    Our biggest economic advantage over China is that unlike China, we have strong environmental regulations and thus unlike the Chinese, we don't live in a toxic cesspool.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 07-13-11 at 06:02 PM.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Of course they have, and the quality of life in the United States is much better for it. Visit a nation that doesn't have all those "onerous environmental regulations" and breath their air. The more fuel efficient our transportation is and the more energy efficient our homes and business are, the more economically competitive we will be and the better are over all quality of life will be. Our economic competition knows this and they are acting. In some areas, such as pollution control, they are playing catch up to us. In other areas, like energy efficiency, they are rapidly trying to pull ahead of us.
    The Chinese have passed a law saying that, in the interests of personal safety and encouraging a well balanced life, everyone must not ride a scooter with a watermelon on their head. The previously laws regarding made-in-China helmets apparently failed their safety guidelines.

    Hangzhou Man Carries Watermelon On Head Riding Scooter – chinaSMACK

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Yes, that is next. And you will be told what mattresses to sleep on, what to eat for breakfast, what you can drink and when you can drink it, how your vegetables are raised, what you can plant in your front yard, what you can read, watch and think. In fact much of this has happened already so governments telling you what light bulbs you can or cannot use in your home is just another notch in their ever-growing belt. And, as you can read on this thread, many people like the idea.

    It apparently doesn't take very long to make sheep out of a previously free people.
    Yes, energy efficiency standards are totally the same thing as 1984.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Of course they have, and the quality of life in the United States is much better for it. Visit a nation that doesn't have all those "onerous environmental regulations" and breath their air. The more fuel efficient our transportation is and the more energy efficient our homes and business are, the more economically competitive we will be and the better are over all quality of life will be. Our economic competition knows this and they are acting. In some areas, such as pollution control, they are playing catch up to us. In other areas, like energy efficiency, they are rapidly trying to pull ahead of us.
    Let's talk about that energy thing. Here we have people with opinions about the best way to generate electricity. Some are for more coal, others only see a nuclear option, some see hydroelectric as the way to go and some see wind generators as the best option.

    For the sake of this discussion I will keep my personal preference out of it.

    Now, in a country like China there is no discussion among the people about it. The government decides, period. Here there will be discussion, often heated. No, a dam can't be built because some obscure slimy little fish thingy will be driven out of existence. And so on.

    Before we tout what others are doing I think it is very important to see what and how they are doing it. I bet Japan right now has some regrets over their dependency of nuclear energy. At the time it probably seemed like a good idea.

    You and I may hear what someone thinks about a certain form of energy and think to ourselves, "I can't see your point of view because I can't get my head that far up my ass", but here they have a right to that opinion. Unlike some places.

    Many times just because something can be done, that doesn't mean it should be done. I will defend your right to your opinion, but you also better be prepared to defend mine, while what little freedom we have left is still ours.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    That's where we have an advantage over the Chinese. If we don't like our government, we can vote in a different one come the election. However, actually having spent time in China, the average Chinese citizen is very happy that their government is finally mandating stronger pollution controls. You see when you live in a country without environmental regulations, this is what you get outside your window:



    Those regulations you seem to hate are the differences between living in a country whose cities look like that, or this:



    It isn't just magic that in our major cities you can look up on a clear day and see a blue sky. It's just not by chance that you can go to a park here and hear birds, or swim in the majority of lakes and rivers here without literally risking your life. You can thank those green regulations for it.

    Our biggest economic advantage over China is that unlike China, we have strong environmental regulations and thus unlike the Chinese, we don't live in a toxic cesspool.
    I was in Eastern Europe just before the Berlin Wall came down and it was as filthy as the photo you submitted.

    You must feel then that personal freedom to do the right thing is good and political and bureaucratic power is not so good. Would that be right?

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Yes, energy efficiency standards are totally the same thing as 1984.
    Do you think it stops at "energy efficient standards"?

    All these government initiatives are always initiated 'in the public good', and are often carried out by some nameless, faceless bureaucrat.

    You don't view any of them with some suspicion?

    At one time, as hard as this is to imagine now, Americans once had the responsibility of selecting their own light bulbs.

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I was in Eastern Europe just before the Berlin Wall came down and it was as filthy as the photo you submitted.

    You must feel then that personal freedom to do the right thing is good and political and bureaucratic power is not so good. Would that be right?
    I feel that personal freedom is good, but that the public sector has a strong role to play in terms of environmental protection. We don't have cleaner air, vast public lands, cleaner water, and so on because some autocratic dictator decreed it was the right thing to do. However, its also not because every individual in the U.S. just happened to make the choice either. It's because the American people petitioned their government for environmental regulation and preservation. We have an EPA because the majority of Americans want the federal government to enforce environmental protections. Group psychology is different than individual psychology. The same individual that will go out and by a gas guzzler many times will also be supportive of government mandated fuel efficiency standards. That may be a little hypocritical on their part, but most people seem to realize that as individuals we don't necessarily always act in our collective best interest. It is the Tragedy of the Commons.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you think it stops at "energy efficient standards"?

    All these government initiatives are always initiated 'in the public good', and are often carried out by some nameless, faceless bureaucrat.

    You don't view any of them with some suspicion?

    At one time, as hard as this is to imagine now, Americans once had the responsibility of selecting their own light bulbs.
    At one time, you could simply burn your old tires rather than having them recycled.

    At one time, you could just throw a car battery in the river rather than having it recycled.

    At one time, you could purchase pesticides to kill ants around your house that also poisoned the ground water for decades.

    At one time, you could buy a lawn mower that polluted more in 2 hours of use than a modern vehicle will in a year.

    At one time, you could catch every fish in a river, kill every deer in a forest, and just move on once you completely depleted the natural resources around you.

    At one time, you could change your oil in your car, and just pour it around your fence posts.

    Do you think you should simply have the choice of still doing all these things, or do you think there is a role for science based reasonable environmental and energy regulations?
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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