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Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

Blue_State said:
Why can't the free market decide on what it wants to use?
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And now if hotels would only put some real bulbs in their room lights, guests might be able to read without a flashlight.
 
1Perry said:
It seems saner heads prevailed.

Congressional negotiators struck a deal Thursday that overturns the new rules that were to have banned sales of traditional incandescent light bulbs beginning next year.

That agreement is tucked inside the massive 1,200-page spending bill that funds the government through the rest of this fiscal year, and which both houses of Congress will vote on Friday. Mr. Obama is expected to sign the bill, which heads off a looming government shutdown.


Congress overturns incandescent light bulb ban - Washington Times

Not a good day to be Jeffrey Immelt.
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Glad to hear this. Now my mom can stop hoarding filament light bulbs. Last time I checked, which was a few months back, she had over 200.
 
Blue_State said:
Why can't the free market decide on what it wants to use?
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the free market is often ignorant and that is why so much cheap crap is sold to them.....China survives by selling us cheap crap...our economy suffers becuase we buy cheap crap,....we waste our money on cheap crap and don't have any left to buy health insurance....I could go on....consumers are often so ignorant that it borders on stupid.
 
UtahBill said:
the free market is often ignorant and that is why so much cheap crap is sold to them.....China survives by selling us cheap crap...our economy suffers becuase we buy cheap crap,....we waste our money on cheap crap and don't have any left to buy health insurance....I could go on....consumers are often so ignorant that it borders on stupid.
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That's the great thing about this country, people are free to make stupid and ignorant decisions..........like pouring $500 million into an already failed solar panel company.
 
UtahBill said:
the free market is often ignorant and that is why so much cheap crap is sold to them.....China survives by selling us cheap crap...our economy suffers becuase we buy cheap crap,....we waste our money on cheap crap and don't have any left to buy health insurance....I could go on....consumers are often so ignorant that it borders on stupid.
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That's the usual leftist argument against freedom. People are “stupid”, so we need to let government make decisions for us instead of letting us make our own decisions. After all, our elected officials and our bureaucrats are so much smarter than us “little people”, right?

The sad irony is that the ones among us who use this argument, or who fall for it, by doing so, tend to prove that it is, at least in part, true; that there really are some people among us who are so stupid that it might be better to let government make their decisions for them rather than let them make their own decisions.
 
Gill said:
That's the great thing about this country, people are free to make stupid and ignorant decisions..........like pouring $500 million into an already failed solar panel company.
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that wasn't HIS money, that belonged to the taxpayers...
 
Blue_State said:
Why can't the free market decide on what it wants to use?
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I'm ok with the free market deciding as soon as the cost of its operations actually includes the environmental and health damage caused to future generations. The cost of that lightbulb at the store does not take into account higher rates of respiratory problems, cancer, or the effects on future food supplies, etc.

Pay for that cost, and you can buy whatever lightbulb you want. Deal?

If I run a company that makes various goods but produces hazardous waste, it is cheaper for me to dump that waste on your front lawn than it is for me to dispose of it safely. Operating cheaper lets me set lower prices and gives my company a competitive edge over cleaner-operating companies. They go out of business. I thrive. 10 years from now you get cancer and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on treatment. (or your insurance company does, raising everyone's premiums)

The free market simply does not properly account for environmental issues. Dirty is almost always cheaper... in the short run.
 
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Bob Blaylock said:
That's the usual leftist argument against freedom. People are “stupid”, so we need to let government make decisions for us instead of letting us make our own decisions. After all, our elected officials and our bureaucrats are so much smarter than us “little people”, right?

The sad irony is that the ones among us who use this argument, or who fall for it, by doing so, tend to prove that it is, at least in part, true; that there really are some people among us who are so stupid that it might be better to let government make their decisions for them rather than let them make their own decisions.
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u calling me a leftie? I vote GOP no matter how stupid the candidate is, because the other guy is usually even more stupid.
You think I want politicians making technical desicions? No, I want trained technical people making technical decisions. People are often ignorant about anything not related to their actual job. Despite my best advice to a young sailor working for me, he goes out and buys a car that was born broken, hard to find parts for, hard to work on....he was often late for work so I told him to buy a Dart, Nova, Falcon, anything simple and I would help him keep it running so he wouldn't get into trouble again. He ignores me then whines when I won't work on his crap pile. I have been fixing my own stuff for 40 years, and other people's stuff as well, but if they go against my advice, they can just call the expensive "pros" to rip them off big time.
Again, people are ignorant about many things, and too stubborn to seek the knowledge that will make them less ignorant, which leads to stupid....
people who ignore good advice are the ultimate in stupid...
and one more time, good advice comes from those trained in the field or fields in question. Rarely will it be a politician or bureaucrat...
 
Blue_State said:
Why can't the free market decide on what it wants to use?
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Because the unregulated market puts short term profits ahead of whats best for future generations that will depend on the environment to sustain itself.
 
Deuce said:
I'm ok with the free market deciding as soon as the cost of its operations actually includes the environmental and health damage caused to future generations. The cost of that lightbulb at the store does not take into account higher rates of respiratory problems, cancer, or the effects on future food supplies, etc.

Pay for that cost, and you can buy whatever lightbulb you want. Deal?

If I run a company that makes various goods but produces hazardous waste, it is cheaper for me to dump that waste on your front lawn than it is for me to dispose of it safely. Operating cheaper lets me set lower prices and gives my company a competitive edge over cleaner-operating companies. They go out of business. I thrive. 10 years from now you get cancer and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on treatment. (or your insurance company does, raising everyone's premiums)

The free market simply does not properly account for environmental issues. Dirty is almost always cheaper... in the short run.
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Kind of interesting, those that think public health and safety regulations are commie plot, but will swear that corporations put public health before their bottom line.

Dishonesty, or cluelessness?
 
1Perry said:
I hope so. I'll certaintly take your word for it that some test claims this. I'll see for myself at some point. Might be awhile if these bulbs are $6.00 or more.



Any single bulb uses very little electricty in a year.



Still, if it's a good deal, people will switch on their own.
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Apparently not you though, huh. There are alot of people who don't realize they are not saving money by buying cheap lightbulbs that waste 50% of their power making heat. We don't want to build more power plants just because some people are dumb.
 
iguanaman said:
Apparently not you though, huh. There are alot of people who don't realize they are not saving money by buying cheap lightbulbs that waste 50% of their power making heat. We don't want to build more power plants just because some people are dumb.
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I bought the 9 dollar bulbs. One out of six burned out in less than six months. When they guaranteed me that they will last the two or three years they claim on the box and give me cash back for the failures then I will gladly purchase them again.
 
iguanaman said:
Apparently not you though, huh. There are alot of people who don't realize they are not saving money by buying cheap lightbulbs that waste 50% of their power making heat. We don't want to build more power plants just because some people are dumb.
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well, actually, if it is winter, that heat ain't wasted......
Our AZ house, tho, is a prime example of where CFL's are useful. The air conditioning bills in the summer can be high, and our kitchen had 8 of the 75 watt floods. Felt like direct sunlight on my head with the thinning hair....
Replacing them with CFL's made a considerable difference.
 
Misterveritis said:
I bought the 9 dollar bulbs. One out of six burned out in less than six months. When they guaranteed me that they will last the two or three years they claim on the box and give me cash back for the failures then I will gladly purchase them again.
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I have seen the CFL's at great sale prices at Sam's Club and the local utility in AZ donated a ton of them to Goodwill, and they sell them dirt cheap....
they have the floods equivalent ot 65watts, the curlies at 3 wattage ratings, and the enclosed curlies that don't look like curlies for those who can't stand to look at the curlies...
My son put in some LED lights in the few places that are hard to get to, and I will likely do that at my Utah house where I need a really tall ladder to get to a couple of fixtures...but not til the curlies burn out....
 
UtahBill said:
I have seen the CFL's at great sale prices at Sam's Club and the local utility in AZ donated a ton of them to Goodwill, and they sell them dirt cheap....
they have the floods equivalent ot 65watts, the curlies at 3 wattage ratings, and the enclosed curlies that don't look like curlies for those who can't stand to look at the curlies...
My son put in some LED lights in the few places that are hard to get to, and I will likely do that at my Utah house where I need a really tall ladder to get to a couple of fixtures...but not til the curlies burn out....
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Damn, looky here. Big Utility donates!!!!
 
American said:
Damn, looky here. Big Utility donates!!!!
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Of course they do. They don't want to buy more capacity just because people are so slow to realize the savings are real when switching from those heat lamps. Electricity is also the most expensive form of heat so don't justify it that way,
 
Catawba said:
Because the unregulated market puts short term profits ahead of whats best for future generations that will depend on the environment to sustain itself.
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While that may be true, the government has a long history of not doing what's best for "future generations" as well, not to mention if they can control commerce such as this it decreases competition and encourage corporate influence (see GE).
 
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meh.. I have the new swirlies all over my house.. I didn't like them at first, but i've gotten used to them.

oddly enough, I didn't need to be told by mommy government to make the change... I did it all on my own, like a big boy.


but really, I can afford to make the change, because..well... i'm not poor.
lots of folks don't have the money to be making changes.. even if the high up front cost benefits them in the long run.
the minute that brought up is the minute we start seeing cries for government subsidies of efficient light bulbs for the poor... and even more cries of raising taxes on the evil despicable rich people to pay for those subsidies..
 
Hare said:
While that may be true, the government has a long history of not doing what's best for "future generations" as well, not to mention if they can control commerce such as this it decreases competition and encourage corporate influence (see GE).
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Why do some always want to blame either God or the government on man's shortcomings???? If we, as a majority, have no interest in not fouling our own nest, how would either the government or the private market be a solution?
 
Well the only reason I don't like being forced is because all the new bulbs are made in China. You know why? To dangerous to do it here. So who cares if Chinese workers die as long as we get longer lasting cheaper light bulbs.

When British consumers are compelled to buy energy-efficient light bulbs in 2012, they will save up to five million tons of carbon dioxide a year from being pumped into the atmosphere. In China, however, a heavy environmental price is being paid for the production of green light bulbs in cost-cutting factories.

Large numbers of Chinese workers have been poisoned by mercury, which forms part of the compact fluorescent light bulbs. A surge in foreign demand, set off by a European Union directive making the bulbs compulsory within three years, has also led to the reopening of mercury mines that have ruined the environment. - Earth-Friendly Light Bulbs Have Dark Secret

Now who's fault is this in the US?

House democrats blocked the repeal of the light bulb ban. A majority of Americans oppose the government’s unpopular and unnecessary ban on incandescent bulbs and infringement on choice. On January 1 2012, 100 watt incandescent bulbs will become illegal, with lower wattages to follow. - Lights Out… Democrats Block Repeal of Lightbulb Ban – Vote Gives Jobs to China | The Gateway Pundit
 
Blackdog said:
Well the only reason I don't like being forced is because all the new bulbs are made in China. You know why? To dangerous to do it here. So who cares if Chinese workers die as long as we get longer lasting cheaper light bulbs.
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Yeah, funny that. The manufacturers get these new regulations in force and then to meet them, they ship the manufacturing to China.
 
I only read two pages. If the level of mercury is that dangerous then I think the people should be inform properly that it can cause harm. I believe govt can request companies to put it in the warning label section of old light bulbs on the box about the high level of mercury. Then let the market decide if it goes out of fashion or not. There likely be some people who still want to use the old light bulbs but that is their business.
 
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UtahBill said:
the free market is often ignorant and that is why so much cheap crap is sold to them.....China survives by selling us cheap crap...our economy suffers becuase we buy cheap crap,....we waste our money on cheap crap and don't have any left to buy health insurance....I could go on....consumers are often so ignorant that it borders on stupid.
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So people aren't smart enough to make decisions for themselves, so we now expect the sponsored politicians to make the decision for us? I believe we are better than sheep.
 
iguanaman said:
Of course they do. They don't want to buy more capacity just because people are so slow to realize the savings are real when switching from those heat lamps. Electricity is also the most expensive form of heat so don't justify it that way,
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I spent over $200 on a bunch of led bulbs. I took them out last week after listening to my wife bitch about them for the last 3 months. It's impossible to read anything with them because the light is so dim. I could have put in low wattage incandescent bulbs and achieved the same thing at a lot less cost. The old incandescent bulbs are back in the fixtures and the led bulbs went into fixtures in rooms that we don't have to see good in.

Electricity is NOT the most expensive form of heat. My last two houses have been heated by electricity. My neighbor has gas heat and spends twice what we do each winter heating his home.
 
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