Senate Democrats draft debt-reduction plan

Senate Democrats have drafted a sweeping debt-reduction plan that would slice $4 trillion from projected borrowing over the next decade without touching the expensive health and retirement programs targeted by President Obama.

Instead, Senate Democrats are proposing to stabilize borrowing through sharp cuts at the Pentagon and other government agencies, as well as $2 trillion in new taxes, primarily on families earning more than $1 million year, according to a copy of the plan obtained by The Washington Post.

With debt-reduction talks under way between Obama and congressional leaders, Senate Democrats are unlikely to adopt the blueprint. However, it has gained broad support among those eager to chart a path to solving the nation’s budget problems without making politically painful cuts to Social Security and Medicare.

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Senate Democrats draft debt-reduction plan - The Washington Post

Tax the Rich, gut the military...

Ignore the 60% or so of the budget that is CAUSING the problem.

Democrats, leading with bribes since 1965.

And, what, reduced revenue due to tax cuts (and recession) combined with high military spending haven't added to the problem?

We need a combined approach. Let the temporary tax cuts expire, eliminate unnecessary military programs and GTFO of the rest of the world's business, and Medicare/SS reform. Doing it this way means that no single change has to be as drastic.

Also useful: Legalize marijuana and prostitution, tax those activities to generate revenue and simultaneously reduce all the other crime that is associated with them, which in turn reduces prison costs...

Deuce said:

And, what, reduced revenue due to tax cuts (and recession) combined with high military spending haven't added to the problem?

We need a combined approach. Let the temporary tax cuts expire, eliminate unnecessary military programs and GTFO of the rest of the world's business, and Medicare/SS reform. Doing it this way means that no single change has to be as drastic.

Also useful: Legalize marijuana and prostitution, tax those activities to generate revenue and simultaneously reduce all the other crime that is associated with them, which in turn reduces prison costs...

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There is no medicaide and SS reform.

Oh that's a good plan, we're facing some financial problems, let's legalize people getting high and the debasement of women! Wow, you are just full of good ideas!!

How about we eliminate SS, Medicare and Medicaide and lower taxes by 20%. across the board?

Huge Surplus, 55%+ Reduction in the budget... economic boom....

Nah... that's crazy talk, how would democrats get votes then?

And the republicans plan: "Lower taxes and gut every single social programs which people count on to live".

TheDemSocialist said:

And the republicans plan: "Lower taxes and gut every single social programs which people count on to live".

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Yes, gut them. People shouldn't count on others being forced to give them anything. And the politicians "giving" them stuff aren't doing so because they give a **** about these folks lives, they just want to ensure you are reliant so you'll keep voting for them. Read my signature;

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." -Thomas Jefferson

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Politicians refusing to put areas they support on the table while freely making large cuts to areas supported by the opposition. I'm Shocked! :shock:

When will both sides learn that this approach is not going to work. Even if they can could come to a compromise as soon as the debt crisis is no longer the main concern of the people both side will once again ratchet up spending in areas they support and we will find ourselves in the very same predicament.

Washington needs a complete outlook change to make anything successful work long term. I think both sides are looking to apply a band-aid fix so that they can continue the status quo.

Baralis said:

Politicians refusing to put areas they support on the table while freely making large cuts to areas supported by the opposition. I'm Shocked! :shock:

When will both sides learn that this approach is not going to work. Even if they can could come to a compromise as soon as the debt crisis is no longer the main concern of the people both side will once again ratchet up spending in areas they support and we will find ourselves in the very same predicament.

Washington needs a complete outlook change to make anything successful work long term. I think both sides are looking to apply a band-aid fix so that they can continue the status quo.

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Don't hate the player, hate the game. Or in this case, politicians are merely behaving as the game allows, and the game are the voters. We get what we deserve when we allow politicians into office that behave like this. So many people are overdependent on the Government that our budget problems will never end till the issue is forced by collapse. All of this is just... delaying the inevitable collapse of our economic foundation.

MrVicchio said:

Senate Democrats draft debt-reduction plan - The Washington Post

Tax the Rich, gut the military...

Ignore the 60% or so of the budget that is CAUSING the problem.

Democrats, leading with bribes since 1965.

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Waits for hell to freeze over ... only when that happens will that bill have a narrow chance of getting by the House ..

MrVicchio said:

There is no medicaide and SS reform.

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¨

SS is in surplus for decades to come and Medicaid/care costs are directly related to the private run healthcare sector. You can gut Medicaid/care as much you want but the cost rising will continue regardless.

Oh that's a good plan, we're facing some financial problems, let's legalize people getting high and the debasement of women! Wow, you are just full of good ideas!!

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Why not? What you are doing now is costing hundreds of billions a year in prison costs, legal costs and law enforcement costs. Considering most people in jail today are there on minor non violent drug charges, then why not? Maybe you wont have to release child rapists and murderers before time...

How about we eliminate SS,

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So throw the elderly out of their homes and let them starve? Not to mention steal from a large portion of the population that has paid into SS... great plan! Get rid of the only program in government that is in surplus!!!!

Medicare and Medicaide

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And let me guess.. let people die on streets? Or are you of the idea that every person who enters an ER needs prove proof of citizenship first and then the ability to pay? Those that cant just die right? You do realize that far from all people can afford the lack luster private healthcare plans there are out there right... people usually like to eat before paying for healthcare insurance.. You do also realize that it is exactly the private healthcare industry and the employer oriented healthcare system that is the main problem of the US right? Of course you dont, since your side gets so much money form these industries that you are blinded by the truth.

and lower taxes by 20%. across the board?

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So you mean starting paying out money to people? How will that on earth help on the deficit if there is no tax income.. you do know a 20% across the board tax cut of the present system pretty much means negative tax income since the actual tax burden is at the lowest level in recent US history?

Huge Surplus, 55%+ Reduction in the budget... economic boom....

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No surplus because of next to no tax income, so in fact massive deficit since I have no doubt you want to increase the military budget even more, and of course the security budget, since the civil unrest you are creating but gutting everything will require a "firm hand".... will that include poverty camps? And no economic boom since you cut off at least 15% of the country from an income... oh and that 15% spends more and votes more than any other part of the population.. really good plan there sherlock! And considering the amount of people who will be pushed into utter poverty with you plans, then the reality is that far more than 15% (on top of the present poor) will be pushed into poverty.

But you did get your reduction in your budget.. just leaving in all the goodies for your defence and security related industry buddies right?

Nah... that's crazy talk, how would democrats get votes then?

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The only crazy talk are from people like you with idiotic ideas that dont even work on paper!

PeteEU said:

¨

SS is in surplus for decades to come and Medicaid/care costs are directly related to the private run healthcare sector. You can gut Medicaid/care as much you want but the cost rising will continue regardless.

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No, it's not, but thanks for playing.

Social Security expenditures exceeded the program’s non-interest income in 2010 for the first time since 1983. The $49 billion deficit last year (excluding interest income) and $46 billion projected deficit in 2011 are in large part due to the weakened economy and to downward income adjustments that correct for excess payroll tax revenue credited to the trust funds in earlier years. This deficit is expected to shrink to about $20 billion for years 2012-2014 as the economy strengthens. After 2014, cash deficits are expected to grow rapidly as the number of beneficiaries continues to grow at a substantially faster rate than the number of covered workers. Through 2022, the annual cash deficits will be made up by redeeming trust fund assets from the General Fund of the Treasury. Because these redemptions will be less than interest earnings, trust fund balances will continue to grow. After 2022, trust fund assets will be redeemed in amounts that exceed interest earnings until trust fund reserves are exhausted in 2036, one year earlier than was projected last year. Thereafter, tax income would be sufficient to pay only about three-quarters of scheduled benefits through 2085.

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It's in deficit spending NOW. My source? Some hard right blog? Some wacky tea party source?
Trustees Report Summary

PeteEU said:

¨
Why not? What you are doing now is costing hundreds of billions a year in prison costs, legal costs and law enforcement costs. Considering most people in jail today are there on minor non violent drug charges, then why not? Maybe you wont have to release child rapists and murderers before time...

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I notice you ignore the legalization of prostitution. I guess you're okay with debasing women. Well the more we know about you...

PeteEU said:

¨
So throw the elderly out of their homes and let them starve? Not to mention steal from a large portion of the population that has paid into SS... great plan! Get rid of the only program in government that is in surplus!!!!

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It's NOT in surplus. As I show above, you have NO TALLY, NO CLUE what you are talking about.

PeteEU said:

¨
And let me guess.. let people die on streets? Or are you of the idea that every person who enters an ER needs prove proof of citizenship first and then the ability to pay? Those that cant just die right? You do realize that far from all people can afford the lack luster private healthcare plans there are out there right... people usually like to eat before paying for healthcare insurance.. You do also realize that it is exactly the private healthcare industry and the employer oriented healthcare system that is the main problem of the US right? Of course you dont, since your side gets so much money form these industries that you are blinded by the truth.

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Of course let them die in the street. Obviously that's what I'm saying! :roll:

PeteEU said:

¨
So you mean starting paying out money to people? How will that on earth help on the deficit if there is no tax income.. you do know a 20% across the board tax cut of the present system pretty much means negative tax income since the actual tax burden is at the lowest level in recent US history?

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Your problem is you believe income is whatever amount of money the government decides to let people have. That's the origin of much of your erroneous thinking.

PeteEU said:

¨
No surplus because of next to no tax income, so in fact massive deficit since I have no doubt you want to increase the military budget even more, and of course the security budget, since the civil unrest you are creating but gutting everything will require a "firm hand".... will that include poverty camps? And no economic boom since you cut off at least 15% of the country from an income... oh and that 15% spends more and votes more than any other part of the population.. really good plan there sherlock! And considering the amount of people who will be pushed into utter poverty with you plans, then the reality is that far more than 15% (on top of the present poor) will be pushed into poverty.

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You cut out 55% of the Federal Budget, and lower taxes by 20% (that's from current you silly silly man). Since you have proven you don't know what's going, repeat lies and base your outlook on a false premise... brings anyone honest to conclude your prognostications are equally flawed.

PeteEU said:

¨
But you did get your reduction in your budget.. just leaving in all the goodies for your defence and security related industry buddies right?

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You brought this up, you made claims I never made. Good job.

PeteEU said:

¨
The only crazy talk are from people like you with idiotic ideas that dont even work on paper!

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Considering you think SS is in surplus... I think we all know where the crazy talk REALLY is.

social security's surplus, as laid out by this year's trustee report

Social Security expenditures exceeded the program’s non-interest income in 2010 for the first time since 1983. The $49 billion deficit last year (excluding interest income) and $46 billion projected deficit in 2011 are in large part due to the weakened economy and to downward income adjustments that correct for excess payroll tax revenue credited to the trust funds in earlier years. This deficit is expected to shrink to about $20 billion for years 2012-2014 as the economy strengthens. After 2014, cash deficits are expected to grow rapidly as the number of beneficiaries continues to grow at a substantially faster rate than the number of covered workers. Through 2022, the annual cash deficits will be made up by redeeming trust fund assets from the General Fund of the Treasury. Because these redemptions will be less than interest earnings, trust fund balances will continue to grow. After 2022, trust fund assets will be redeemed in amounts that exceed interest earnings until trust fund reserves are exhausted in 2036, one year earlier than was projected last year.

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Trustees Report Summary

the surplus is safe, the surplus is real

the surplus is in the lockbox

LOL!

The Prof said:

social security's surplus, as laid out by this year's trustee report



Trustees Report Summary

the surplus is safe, the surplus is real

the surplus is in the lockbox

LOL!

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I... posted this Prof Why do you think Pete ran from the thread. His entire premise was based on a lie.

MrVicchio said:

His entire premise was based on a lie.

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there's a lot of that going around

MrVicchio said:

Yes, gut them.

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Then why cant we gut the military?
What should we gut?
Education?
Environmental agencies?
NASA?
Welfare?
Social Security?
Medicare?
Medicaid?
Military benefits?
Public Work Agencies?
Unemployment benefits?
Public housing?
Have you ever been reliant on these programs to help you out?

People shouldn't count on others being forced to give them anything.

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Until youve been in that position.

And the politicians "giving" them stuff aren't doing so because they give a **** about these folks lives, they just want to ensure you are reliant so you'll keep voting for them.

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I will agree that a lot of politicans dont give a **** about the people but some do and i will always stand behind those people that do.

Read my signature;

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Sense your signature says its then it must be right...:roll:

Social Security has not added one nickel to the deficit in any year since its passage. Social Security has not added one nickel to the national debt.

To make it the scapegoat now is to only indulge the rabid right wing in their eight decade long wet dream.

LOL!

always on the verge of hysteria

Obama Seeks Social Security Cut In Debt Talks - Milwaukee News Story - WISN Milwaukee

MrVicchio said:

Yes, gut them. People shouldn't count on others being forced to give them anything. And the politicians "giving" them stuff aren't doing so because they give a **** about these folks lives, they just want to ensure you are reliant so you'll keep voting for them. Read my signature;

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Thank you for proving why you have absolutely no credibility in discussions about a well functioning society. Your neantherthal form of living should be avoided at all costs by modern human beings. You're a rabidly pro-gun, pro-death penalty, tough on crime cause you from Texas relic. My only hope is that one day a time machine will be built and we'll send your ideology back to 15th century Romania.

TheDemSocialist said:

And the republicans plan: "Lower taxes and gut every single social programs which people count on to live".

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Also don't forget that eradicating tax loopholes and government subsidies are tax increases, so we can't have those, even if they lowered the debt too.

TheDemSocialist said:

Then why cant we gut the military?
What should we gut?
Education?
Environmental agencies?
NASA?
Welfare?
Social Security?
Medicare?
Medicaid?
Military benefits?
Public Work Agencies?
Unemployment benefits?
Public housing?
Have you ever been reliant on these programs to help you out?

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I would make cuts to all of those with the exception of SS.

One thing I constantly hear the poor are going to starve if we cut assistance, I disagree. I feel that if we cut all government assistance by 25% that largely people would still get by. Consider how things have changed in the last 60 years. 60 years ago people were much more reliant on family over government. If you lost your job or were on hard times you would turn to your family for help. Now society turns to the government because the government expects less of them.

Today persons seem to expect to keep their home, car(s), possessions while they are unemployed. Why should a person be allowed to keep these things if they are unable to pay for them? Because having to sell/foreclose can be a difficult experience and we do not want anyone to suffer any discomfort even if they can no longer live within their means? Thats rubish!

When the economy turned south I struggled, my income took a huge hit. I supported myself and my father on 15K a year yet I asked for nor received any assistance. I cut cut cut and lived with a lot less. I made sacrifices so that I was not on anyone else's dime. I admit it sucked and I hated it but I lived with it until I could improve things. It also works as a great motivator to improve ones situation which government assistance does not.

I suspect that if we were to cut welfare that more people would simply rely on family again until they could improve their situations. I think it is a win win situation. Less government assistance and would bring families closer together.

I agree that a combined approach is needed.

Look at what happened to Minnesota. They spent all their time playing the partisan blame game and now their credit rating has been downgraded. Honestly, do partisan hacks have a single neuron to understand what this means for our nation's strength and credibility?

Stop pointing fingers and start cooperating. The time to act is now. And I swear to god, if either party in congress ****s this up, I will automatically never consider voting for them again in my lifetime no matter who is running.

Temporal said:

I agree that a combined approach is needed.

Look at what happened to Minnesota. They spent all their time playing the partisan blame game and now their credit rating has been downgraded. Honestly, do partisan hacks have a single neuron to understand what this means for our nation's strength and credibility?

Stop pointing fingers and start cooperating. The time to act is now. And I swear to god, if either party in congress ****s this up, I will automatically never consider voting for them again in my lifetime no matter who is running.

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Seconded. Motion carried.

MrVicchio said:

Oh that's a good plan, we're facing some financial problems, let's legalize people getting high and the debasement of women! Wow, you are just full of good ideas!!

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Here I thought you supported economic liberty. I guess it appears there is only so far you will go before you desire a return to the busybody ways that you decry of our current nanny state. You really are no better than the liberals that you constantly whine about.

MrVicchio said:

How about we eliminate SS, Medicare and Medicaide and lower taxes by 20%. across the board?

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I have a few questions that I would like you to answer.

-What will the economic consequences be when over $700 billion of disposable income disappears with an economy that is already suffering from a deficiency in consumer demand?
-How will senior citizens afford medical insurance?
-What changes will doctors make now that they would not be reimbursed now for caring for the poor and the elderly?
-How will your destroying both programs affect the demands consumers have for the pharmaceutical and other health care related industries?

MrVicchio said:

Huge Surplus, 55%+ Reduction in the budget... economic boom....

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I guess in the fantasyland you live in the government can remove $2 trillion in spending and not see a noticeable difference in consumer behavior. Maybe if you had even an inkling of understanding of basic economics, then you would understand that your plan would lead this country into an economic contraction even worse than the one we went through in 2008.

You know what I like about this forum? Almost no one is middle ground or based in reality. You have right-wing regular ole Jared Lee Loughners like Mr. V, and then you have your pot-smoking, ultra-PC, "gets all the facts straight from Comedy Central" liberals like Haymarket.


Hey, only in America.

MrVicchio said:

There is no medicaide and SS reform.

Oh that's a good plan, we're facing some financial problems, let's legalize people getting high and the debasement of women! Wow, you are just full of good ideas!!

How about we eliminate SS, Medicare and Medicaide and lower taxes by 20%. across the board?

Huge Surplus, 55%+ Reduction in the budget... economic boom....

Nah... that's crazy talk, how would democrats get votes then?

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Eliminating a program like Medicare doesn't magically create wealth. People will still have to get healthcare. The money will just go through an insurance company instead of the Medicare program.

Medicaid elimination? You're a ****ing monster.

Deuce said:

Eliminating a program like Medicare doesn't magically create wealth. People will still have to get healthcare. The money will just go through an insurance company instead of the Medicare program.

Medicaid elimination? You're a ****ing monster.

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Sounds good to me... the systems currently rigged so let's kill it and start over. When people had to pay real money for healthcare it didn't cost as much... wonder why? Oh yea, I already mentioned the systems rigged. Sorry.