• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Unemployment Rate Rises to 9.2 Percent in June as Hiring Stalls

I stand corrected, but it was still the worst job creation rate for a president on record.

Bush On Jobs: The Worst Track Record On Record - Real Time Economics - WSJ

Which is kind of my point. The economy was **** when Obama took office and has not gotten much better.

That is true, now tell me do you think the Democrats sabotaged the last two years of the Bush Administration to regain the WH in 2008? The economy was in the crapper when Obama took office but Obama was in the Congress that helped create the problem. I find it interesting that so many use that argument and ignore that the recession officially ended in June 2009, Obama had his economic plan implemented almost day 1 by a massive majority of Democrats in the Congress and here we are two years AFTER the end of the recession and the numbers are terrible still with higher unemployment than when he took office and 16.2% total unemployment today vs when he took office. The Obama record is a disaster and a good President with a strong pro growth economic policy would have generated much more positive economic results than Obama.
 
Let me see if I have the rabid right winger economic history down here.

In the late 70s, the Carter economy sucked. The great Republican Messiah Ronald Reagan came into office in 1981, he instituted his tax cuts, the country went into a deep recession in 1982-83. That however was all Carter's fault. The economy then entered into a period of expansion, lasting through the end of the Reagan Administration. Then Bush Sr. took office, the economy grew for a while then went into a recession because Bush raised taxes in order to curb the huge deficits he inherited from the Democratic congress that made Reagan spend so much money. Then in 1993, Bill Clinton took office. He and the Democratic congress raised taxes again, all the Republicans predicted it would cause a huge recession, instead the economy grew, median income went up every year, the poverty rate went down every year, and 22 million new jobs were created and thus outperformed the Reagan economy by every measure. However, that was all due to Reagan. You see even though he was senile, as the Republican Messiah, he was still able to bring about prosperity for the country despite his dementia. Any other credit for the economic expansion resulted from the Republican congress elected in 1994. When Bill Clinton left office we had the largest budget surplus in our history. That had nothing to do with Bill Clinton though, it was all because of senile retired Reagan, and the Republican congress. In 2001 the dot com bubble had burst, and we went back into a recession. The recession was all Bill Clinton's fault, and Carter probably had something to do with it as well, this of course is despite the fact that we still had the same Republican congress in office. That same year we were also attacked on 9/11, which was not Bush's fault at all, but rather was Bill Clinton's fault as well as liberals in general, gays, environmentalists, feminists, and all non-evangelical Christians. Luckily Bush had a round of tax cuts, then another in 2003, and got us involved in 2 wars. However, the economy was growing again, and some jobs were being created, so the Republicans of course were singing his praise, praising financial deregulation, talking up Bush's vision for an "ownership society" where nearly everyone owned a home, and even talking about how it might be a great idea to take the current Social Security and Medicare surpluses and invest them in mortgage securities as they would be a very safe investment and offer a much better return (I actually heard a Heritage Institute economist push that very idea on NPR back in 2005). Bush was great until the economy tanked, but that was all Obama's fault, even though he had yet to take office (presumably, businesses all over the world were so afraid of the prospect of Bush being out of office they practically ceased all economic activity). Once Obama took office in January, 2009, everything bad that had happened in the last 10 years suddenly became his fault.

I think I got it now.
 
That is true, now tell me do you think the Democrats sabotaged the last two years of the Bush Administration to regain the WH in 2008? The economy was in the crapper when Obama took office but Obama was in the Congress that helped create the problem. I find it interesting that so many use that argument and ignore that the recession officially ended in June 2009,

Ok, the housing bubble started around late 1997 through 2005. That bubble was the catalyst for the great recession. The housing bubble correction started in 2006, and in late 2007 onward, the mortgage securities and derivatives markets blew up causing a worldwide financial crisis. So this, despite it all occurring while Republicans controlled congress, is the fault of the Democrats in 2007 onward?

Could it be.....could it possibly be.... that we had this massive unregulated derivatives market which allowed mortgage securities to be packaged and sold, that resulted in the massive housing bubble that eventually caused the great recession? I mean I know you guys like to blame Fanny and Freddie, and they do share some of the blame, but they were late to the game on the housing bubble. Moreover, they don't explain the massive commercial real estate bubble at all, nor do they explain the asset bubbles at the time that were across much of the industrialised world.
 
It just can't keep going like this. Obama's going to end up getting slammed in 2012 if this doesn't fix itself soon. Whether or not it's his puppy, it will ultimately be him, and the democratic party, that are slammed over this news. Why? Because they are in charge and have been since the beginning of this economic turndown.

Unemployment Rate Rises to 9.2 Percent in June as Hiring Stalls - FoxNews.com

You know, this could be a real problem for Obama if:

a) the Republicans actually had a credible alternative; and
b) the American people believed the economy was Obama's fault rather than Bush


As to a) the Republicans offer up a Bachman, Palin, Gingrich or the Pizza Man..... none of the above remotely credible and
b) the American people rightfully continue to blame Republican administrations for our current economic dull drums (http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/poll_Obama_GOP_062911_7am.pdf?tag=contentMain;contentBody)

Certainly cause for concern for Dems, but given that credible Republicans have no chance of actually winning the nomination, its not likely to be a real problem.
 
Last edited:
Ok, the housing bubble started around late 1997 through 2005. That bubble was the catalyst for the great recession. The housing bubble correction started in 2006, and in late 2007 onward, the mortgage securities and derivatives markets blew up causing a worldwide financial crisis. So this, despite it all occurring while Republicans controlled congress, is the fault of the Democrats in 2007 onward?

Could it be.....could it possibly be.... that we had this massive unregulated derivatives market which allowed mortgage securities to be packaged and sold, that resulted in the massive housing bubble that eventually caused the great recession? I mean I know you guys like to blame Fanny and Freddie, and they do share some of the blame, but they were late to the game on the housing bubble. Moreover, they don't explain the massive commercial real estate bubble at all, nor do they explain the asset bubbles at the time that were across much of the industrialised world.

Thank you.... someone that actually understands the root cause of the economic problem.
 
Ok, the housing bubble started around late 1997 through 2005. That bubble was the catalyst for the great recession. The housing bubble correction started in 2006, and in late 2007 onward, the mortgage securities and derivatives markets blew up causing a worldwide financial crisis. So this, despite it all occurring while Republicans controlled congress, is the fault of the Democrats in 2007 onward?

Could it be.....could it possibly be.... that we had this massive unregulated derivatives market which allowed mortgage securities to be packaged and sold, that resulted in the massive housing bubble that eventually caused the great recession? I mean I know you guys like to blame Fanny and Freddie, and they do share some of the blame, but they were late to the game on the housing bubble. Moreover, they don't explain the massive commercial real estate bubble at all, nor do they explain the asset bubbles at the time that were across much of the industrialised world.

Late to the game? There was no packaging of bogus packages if F&F wasn't there to buy them up.
 
Late to the game? There was no packaging of bogus packages if F&F wasn't there to buy them up.

F&F was not involved in commercial real estate, yet they were still packed and sold and backed with unregulated swaps. They were not involved in foreign real estate, yet those securities were packaged and sold and backed with unregulated swaps. I know this goes against the blind faith of some on here, but the biggest catalyst for the financial crisis was the insanely huge, 77 trillion dollar totally unregulated derivatives markets that turned out to be basically worthless once the bubble burst.
 
SouthernDemocrat;1059635181]Let me see if I have the rabid right winger economic history down here.

In the late 70s, the Carter economy sucked. The great Republican Messiah Ronald Reagan came into office in 1981, he instituted his tax cuts, the country went into a deep recession in 1982-83. That however was all Carter's fault. The economy then entered into a period of expansion, lasting through the end of the Reagan Administration.

Love revisionist history especially from someone who probably wasn't old enough to understand what it was like to buy a home at 17% interest rates and have a misery index of over 20. The recession reported by NBER was July 1981 to November 1982 and was the result of the Carter economic policy so you stand corrected again. Reagan implemented a pro growth economic policy by implementing a 10-10-5% tax cut over three years and that began the strongest economic growth this country had ever seen in a post war era. His economy created 18 million jobs, doubled govt. Federal Income Tax revenue, doubled the GDP, and stimulated entreprenueral spirit that rewarded risk taking.

Then Bush Sr. took office, the economy grew for a while then went into a recession because Bush raised taxes in order to curb the huge deficits he inherited from the Democratic congress that made Reagan spend so much money.

GHW Bush showed what happens when you compromise with a liberal. He raised taxes in an agreement with the Democrat Congress to cut spending $3 for every dollar of tax increase and we know how that turned out. We got the tax increases but no spending cuts


Then in 1993, Bill Clinton took office. He and the Democratic congress raised taxes again, all the Republicans predicted it would cause a huge recession, instead the economy grew, median income went up every year, the poverty rate went down every year, and 22 million new jobs were created and thus outperformed the Reagan economy by every measure.

Revisionist history. Bill Clinton took office with a growing economy and almost killed it. His economic plan was so good that the Republicans took control of Congress in the 1994 elections. The Republicans got Clinton to sign 60% of the Contract with America and cut his budgets. Clinton benefited from the dot.com boom but didn't create 22 million jobs

He took office with 119.1 million people employed and left it with 137.7 million Employed or 18.6 million according to BLS so you stand corrected again

1993 119075 119275 119542 119474 120115 120290 120467 120856 120554 120823 121169 121464
1994 121966 122086 121930 122290 122864 122634 122706 123342 123687 124112 124516 124721
1995 124663 124928 124955 124945 124421 124522 124816 124852 125133 125388 125188 125088
1996 125125 125639 125862 125994 126244 126602 126947 127172 127536 127890 127771 127860
1997 128298 128298 128891 129143 129464 129412 129822 130010 130019 130179 130653 130679
1998 130726 130807 130814 131209 131325 131244 131329 131390 131986 131999 132280 132602
1999 133027 132856 132947 132955 133311 133378 133414 133591 133707 133993 134309 134523
2000 136559 136598 136701 137270 136630 136940 136531 136662 136893 137088 137322 137614
2001 137778 137612 137783 137299 137092 136873 137071 136241 136846 136392 136238 136047


However, that was all due to Reagan. You see even though he was senile, as the Republican Messiah, he was still able to bring about prosperity for the country despite his dementia. Any other credit for the economic expansion resulted from the Republican congress elected in 1994. When Bill Clinton left office we had the largest budget surplus in our history. That had nothing to do with Bill Clinton though, it was all because of senile retired Reagan, and the Republican congress.

Again you stand corrected as there never was a budget surplus. Clinton took office with a 4.4 trillion dollar debt and left it at 5.7 trillion. If he had a surplus the debt would have gone down but every year the debt went up. Not sure where you get your information but it is wrong.

The Myth of the Clinton Surplus


In 2001 the dot com bubble had burst, and we went back into a recession. The recession was all Bill Clinton's fault, and Carter probably had something to do with it as well, this of course is despite the fact that we still had the same Republican congress in office. That same year we were also attacked on 9/11, which was not Bush's fault at all, but rather was Bill Clinton's fault as well as liberals in general, gays, environmentalists, feminists, and all non-evangelical Christians.

Yes, we went into recession March 2001, less than two months after Bush took office, a recession that was compounded by 9/11 a few months later. How did Bush have anything to do with the recession although obviously he was responsible for the economy day one whereas Obama still isn't responsible for the economy 2 1/2 years later.

Luckily Bush had a round of tax cuts, then another in 2003, and got us involved in 2 wars. However, the economy was growing again, and some jobs were being created, so the Republicans of course were singing his praise, praising financial deregulation, talking up Bush's vision for an "ownership society" where nearly everyone owned a home, and even talking about how it might be a great idea to take the current Social Security and Medicare surpluses and invest them in mortgage securities as they would be a very safe investment and offer a much better return (I actually heard a Heritage Institute economist push that very idea on NPR back in 2005). Bush was great until the economy tanked, but that was all Obama's fault, even though he had yet to take office (presumably, businesses all over the world were so afraid of the prospect of Bush being out of office they practically ceased all economic activity).

Interesting how there is a distinct difference in employment with GOP Control of Congress and Democrat control of Congress but again that fact escapes you. Democrats controlled the Senate from 2001-2002, Republicans controlled Congress between 2003-2006, and Democrats controlled Congress 2007-2008. Let's see if you can tell when Republicans controlled Congress.

2001 137778 137612 137783 137299 137092 136873 137071 136241 136846 136392 136238 136047
2002 135701 136438 136177 136126 136539 136415 136413 136705 137302 137008 136521 136426
2003 137417 137482 137434 137633 137544 137790 137474 137549 137609 137984 138424 138411
2004 138472 138542 138453 138680 138852 139174 139556 139573 139487 139732 140231 140125
2005 140245 140385 140654 141254 141609 141714 142026 142434 142401 142548 142499 142752
2006 143142 143444 143765 143794 144108 144370 144229 144631 144797 145292 145477 145914
2007 146032 146043 146368 145686 145952 146079 145926 145685 146193 145885 146483 146173
2008 146421 146165 146173 146306 146023 145768 145515 145187 145021 144677 143907 143188
2009 142221 141687 140854 140902 140438 140038 139817 139433 138768 138242 138381 137792
2010 138333 138641 138905 139455 139420 139119 138960 139250 139391 139061 138888 139206
2011 139323 139573 139864 139674 139779 139334

Regarding the housing bubble, find out who Jamie Gorelick and Franklin Raines were and get back to me. Then tell me about Barney Franks and Chris Dodd's involvement in the home ownership program since you want to blame it all on Bush

Once Obama took office in January, 2009, everything bad that had happened in the last 10 years suddenly became his fault.

Obama record, 15.1 million officially unemployed TODAY 2 1/2 years later, 16.2% total unemployment or over 20 million TODAY, 4 trillion added to the debt as of the end of fiscal year 2011, and a rising misery index.

I think I got it now.

No, I don't think you do. Stop paying attention to leftwing sites, use bls.gov, bea.gov, and the U.S. Treasury sites for non partisan and actual data.
 
You know, this could be a real problem for Obama if:

a) the Republicans actually had a credible alternative; and
b) the American people believed the economy was Obama's fault rather than Bush


As to a) the Republicans offer up a Bachman, Palin, Gingrich or the Pizza Man..... none of the above remotely credible and
b) the American people rightfully continue to blame Republican administrations for our current economic dull drums (http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/poll_Obama_GOP_062911_7am.pdf?tag=contentMain;contentBody)

Certainly cause for concern for Dems, but given that credible Republicans have no chance of actually winning the nomination, its not likely to be a real problem.

Obama record, 15.1 million officially unemployed TODAY 2 1/2 years later, 16.2% total unemployment or over 20 million TODAY, 4 trillion added to the debt as of the end of fiscal year 2011, and a rising misery index.
 
Late to the game? There was no packaging of bogus packages if F&F wasn't there to buy them up.

Franklin Raines and Jamie Gorelick made millions on Freddie and Fannie both of which are bigger today and in greater debt thanks to Barack Obama. Raines and Gorelick were big Democrat operatives
 
Its important to recognize that if there wasnt significant finagling with the labor participation rates (ie - keeping participation rates at historical norms), then the unemployment rate would be well north of 11%.
 
Its important to recognize that if there wasnt significant finagling with the labor participation rates (ie - keeping participation rates at historical norms), then the unemployment rate would be well north of 11%.

BLS reports the U-6 rate at 16.2% which puts 24+million on the unemployment line and that is a disaster.
 
BLS reports the U-6 rate at 16.2% which puts 24+million on the unemployment line and that is a disaster.

Its more than that. We are literally tetering on the edge of a full scale social devolution.

What is so mind boggling is that people even remotely consider this a recovery. What recovery in the past fifty years was quatitative easing used? What recovery was ZIRP in place fo over two years? What recovery had unemployment this high and with no end in sight? What recovery had consumers in so much debt? What recovery happened with no corporations hiring and afraid to hire? What recovery happened where proper accounting rules were thrown out the window? What recovery was there where housing was contracting like it is still? I mean this is as obvious as the sun rises that governments are dealing with a global depression becuase of debt. It won't be solved until the debt is purged.
 
Its more than that. We are literally tetering on the edge of a full scale social devolution.

What is so mind boggling is that people even remotely consider this a recovery. What recovery in the past fifty years was quatitative easing used? What recovery was ZIRP in place fo over two years? What recovery had unemployment this high and with no end in sight? What recovery had consumers in so much debt? What recovery happened with no corporations hiring and afraid to hire? What recovery happened where proper accounting rules were thrown out the window? What recovery was there where housing was contracting like it is still? I mean this is as obvious as the sun rises that governments are dealing with a global depression becuase of debt. It won't be solved until the debt is purged.

What would make the next depression worse, if it happens, is that people don't have the skills they once had in order to survive. Many are in sales, using computers, cooking and serving food, etc, and don't have any idea of the skills necessary to survive on their own, doing their own repairs, planting and harvesting food, baking, canning vegetables, etc.. In fact there is another thread where planting a garden in your front yard has been declared illegal.

People accustomed to an easy life expect it to continue, especially given the unrealistic expectations raised by politicians who will only say what the poor buggers who vote for them want to hear..
 
A crappy economy, sabotaged by the Democrats before they took over Congress and made confoundedly so, after they took over Congress.

You guys crack me up.

We've now gone from "When does it become Obama's economy?" to "It was never Bush's economy." I'm perfectly willing to lay blame on Obama for the fact that we're still in a terrible economy, but before that, it was Bush. He did a crappy job managing the deficit and the economy. Obama's done a crappy job trying to get us out of it.

How many budgets did the Republicans balance between 2001-2007? ZERO! At a time when they controlled both houses of Congress and the White House.

Someday, you'll realize that Democrats are only half of the problem. Three guesses as to who the other half is.
 
Alright, so it's "debt" reduction, not "deficit" reduction. But if that's the case, why then are Republicans putting so much emphasis on how large the deficit is? If it's debt that's the bigger problem, isn't that what they should be focused on?
Because that's what increases the debt. You have to eliminate the deficit before you can pay off debt.

And what's the fastest way to pay down the debt? Spending cuts alone? Increased taxes alone that go toward the debt? Or a combination of both?
I have already discussed this. Given that the deficit is ~73% of available revenues, not matter how much you think you can raise taxes, you have to cut spending even more.
Entitlement spending, alone, exceeds available revenue by almost 10%.
 
Apparently the situation is so dire that the President is going to Address Us. It's so important he's even cancelled this month's vacation.


You know, in 2008 I jokingly wrote that soon Obama would learn the difference between making speeches about policy, and the difficulty of actually trying to implement it. I wonder if I was giving him too much credit.

Don't you realize we'd be at 25% unemployment, if it weren't for Barack Obama.

2905421.jpg
 
You guys crack me up.

We've now gone from "When does it become Obama's economy?" to "It was never Bush's economy." I'm perfectly willing to lay blame on Obama for the fact that we're still in a terrible economy, but before that, it was Bush. He did a crappy job managing the deficit and the economy. Obama's done a crappy job trying to get us out of it.

How many budgets did the Republicans balance between 2001-2007? ZERO! At a time when they controlled both houses of Congress and the White House.

Someday, you'll realize that Democrats are only half of the problem. Three guesses as to who the other half is.

What you fail to understand is that NO President has balanced the budget in the last 30 years and the only time in the last 30 years that they controlled both the WH and the Congress was 2003-2006. Time to try it again, this time with people like Ryan, Cantor in the House and Rubio and Rand in the Senate
 
Time to try it again, this time with people like Ryan, Cantor in the House and Rubio and Rand in the Senate

They didn't do it last time, why would I think they'll do it now?

NO President has balanced the budget in the last 30 years

Which includes Republicans. Reagan and both Bushes. I'm the one who's coming out and saying "Obama didn't fix things, it's time to support someone else." Some of the blame goes on Democrats, but some of it goes on Republicans too. Can't you see that?
 
They didn't do it last time, why would I think they'll do it now?



Which includes Republicans. Reagan and both Bushes. I'm the one who's coming out and saying "Obama didn't fix things, it's time to support someone else." Some of the blame goes on Democrats, but some of it goes on Republicans too. Can't you see that?

This time there are more Freshmen in the Congress and if they don't do it they will be fired like the last group of Republicans. We have seen what liberalism has done the past two years and it has failed.

I can indeed see that there is enough blame to go around, when will Obama accept some of it? It is the Obama economy and yet many here continue to blame Bush
 
No, they cannot.

It's the weekend. Get out there and have some fun! :2wave:

I am still waiting for a response to a couple questions I gave you since others cannot answer them, what part of the 2009 deficit was Obama's, what economic plan does Obama have in place to create net job growth, please explain to me when this becomes the Obama economy since Bush was responsible for the 2001 results but Obama wasn't responsible for anything that happened in 2009?
 
I am still waiting for a response to a couple questions I gave you since others cannot answer them, what part of the 2009 deficit was Obama's, what economic plan does Obama have in place to create net job growth, please explain to me when this becomes the Obama economy since Bush was responsible for the 2001 results but Obama wasn't responsible for anything that happened in 2009?

No. You get out there and have some fun, too. :2wave:
 
No. You get out there and have some fun, too. :2wave:

Very early in TX, so enjoying educating liberals and watching liberals run when challenged and never answering any questions.
 
Back
Top Bottom