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Thread: Mexican national executed in Texas

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Why do these people think that calling a consulate is a get-out-of-jail free card?
    Who said that this is a "get out of jail free" card? This isn't Monopoly!
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
    Sure, but you could still say it's cruel. But that's not the main reason I oppose it, as a libertarian I just believe the government shouldn't have the right to take away life no matter what plus I find the death penalty to be barbaric and is mostly just supported because people want revenge.
    Yes, deliberately taking the life of another human being is a serious step, but the murderer of this young girl, who committed a horribly cruel act still effecting her family today, must have been aware of the penalties. He took his chances anyway and lost.

    You can call the consequences of breaking any law 'revenge' though I suspect the word is intended more to encourage an emotional reaction. as though justice isn't also being served. All punishments for breaking the law could be called revenge, just as that simple parking ticket.

    The possibility of the death penalty being available says that societies and cultures value human life and if you take the life of another human being, the most heinous of all crimes, you are possibly going to forfeit your own life. You don't get a do over and promise not to do it again. It must be established in everyone's mind from cradle to grave that murder is the most serious offense imaginable, it is not a cartoon or TV program or a video game. It is murder and you will probably lose your life if you commit one. , Maybe this guy didn't know that when he murdered this young girl, but he should have.

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Ludahai, you said earlier that
    It was the State of Texas holding him and it was their responsibility to tell the SUSPECT of his rights under the treaty in accordance with Article 36 of the treaty.
    and I asked
    Are all States of the Union now required to ask a person their citizenship whenever they are a suspect in a crime?
    Does this mean that everyone who has been a suspect on a crime since the early 1990's should have been asked their citizenship, much like the Miranda Rights?

    As you know, there is a great deal of controversy going around that people should not be asked that question whereas this treaty, as you explain it, makes it the the law to ask if a suspect is a citizen of the United States or not.

    It therefore follows that the law is already on the side of those who want to ask possible suspects their nationality in order to protect their rights and call the (in the case anyway) the Mexican Consulate. Should it be made mandatory to ask any suspects their nationality or is that already the case?
    Last edited by Grant; 07-09-11 at 11:31 AM.

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Ludahai, you said earlier that


    and I asked


    Does this mean that everyone who has been a suspect on a crime since the early 1990's should have been asked their citizenship, much like the Miranda Rights?

    As you know, there is a great deal of controversy going around that people should not be asked that question whereas this treaty, as you explain it, makes it the the law to ask if a suspect is a citizen of the United States or not.

    It therefore follows that the law is already on the side of those who want to ask possible suspects their nationality in order to protect their rights and call the (in the case anyway) the Mexican Consulate. Should it be made mandatory to ask any suspects their nationality or is that already the case?
    In a border state, it seems logical to at least ask the nationality to ensure compliance with the treaty. Of course, Liberals will hate that, but too bad. Even so, I still find it hard to believe that in the years of investigation, trials and appeals, the prosecutors office and judges never established this man's citizenship status. Doesn't exactly instill faith in the Texas justice system.
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    In a border state, it seems logical to at least ask the nationality to ensure compliance with the treaty. Of course, Liberals will hate that, but too bad. Even so, I still find it hard to believe that in the years of investigation, trials and appeals, the prosecutors office and judges never established this man's citizenship status. Doesn't exactly instill faith in the Texas justice system.
    But this law doesn't apply only to border States, it applies to all States. Under this treaty the police are obliged to ask everyone for their citizenship, which would certainly include Asians, Middle East types, etc. as well as native Americans.

    This treaty and it's necessary enforcement strongly underlines the need for a National Identity card in order that all people not having such a card are guaranteed the rights to call their consulate if they are suspects in a crime.

    The fact that this man was a Mexican is not really relevant when put in full context. The law was not followed when the question of his nationality was not asked. It would appear then that all the individual States have to do now is point out their responsibilities under this treaty and ask every suspect in a crime their nationality. This would, of course, be also used as a tool to help clean up the illegal immigrant problem.

  6. #216
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Article VI refers to the supremacy of treaties. This isn't about the UN and the ICJ, but a treaty that was signed and ratified by the United States. The ICJ ruling called on Texas to review the procedures, NOT cancel the execution. Not even the Mexican government was calling for him to be released...
    ...review what about the case? What purpose would the review have served? Texas never denied the fact that the man never got his consular rights.

    What would that review have unearthed?

    Why postpone the execution to review what you already know? Why not review it after you execute him?
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    I agree with Sgt Rock. This guy had it coming.

  8. #218
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by The Toast View Post
    I agree with Sgt Rock. This guy had it coming.
    actually, you agree with everyone who has posted
    no one believes this fellow did not have it coming

    what is being argued is whether the appropriate legal process was followed
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    actually, you agree with everyone who has posted
    no one believes this fellow did not have it coming

    what is being argued is whether the appropriate legal process was followed
    Would it have even mattered?
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  10. #220
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by The Toast View Post
    Would it have even mattered?
    not to him
    he would have been executed if complete due process had been afforded

    governor perry used this as a launching pad to the republican candidacy


    but the significance of our failure to provide due process to an alien is the precedent it sets for when Americans need access to American counsel when in legal difficulty outside the USA
    of course, from reading this thread, you already knew that
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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