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Thread: Mexican national executed in Texas

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    his trial was in the 90's
    now let's see when you insist he benefited from mexican counsel:

    gotta time machine or what
    how did mexican counsel in 2010 assist him in his trial in the mid 90's?
    You continue to be confused by the terms "Counsel" and "Consulate".

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    What you don't seem to get is that it does, in fact, grant exactly this...
    Please show me the text from the treaty that confers legally binding individual rights.

    Federal Case Law says otherwise:
    Nothing in [the] text explicitly provides for judicial enforcement of . . . consular access provisions at the behest of private litigants.
    243 F3d 192 United States of America v. Alejandro Jimenez-Nava | OpenJurist

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    According to the Constitution, all treaties signed and ratified are the law of the land and all judges in the states are bound to uphold them. This is CLEARLY stated in Article VI Clause 2.
    ...for the last time...IT WASN'T RATIFIED, THEREFORE YOUR ARGUMENT IS WORTHLESS. It was signed. It was NOT ratified.
    Last edited by Jeezy; 07-08-11 at 01:33 PM.
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You continue to be confused by the terms "Counsel" and "Consulate".
    while you cannot speak for gill, are you now acknowledging that the criminal never received the mexican government representation to which he was entitled prior to and during trial
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    I thought the point was already made that the guy never revealed his immigration status prior to the trial. If that's the case, how would anybody have known to ask if he wants to exercise his right? I think a lot of people would have been screaming if it were found that they asked him if he was illegal or a foreign national based on him being Mexican in appearance...
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    while you cannot speak for gill, are you now acknowledging that the criminal never received the mexican government representation to which he was entitled prior to and during trial
    He answered the same way I would have.

    You also continue to ignore the fact that the Supreme Court has ruled on several occasions that failure to notify a non-citizens consulate is not grounds for appeal. If the issue is not brought up during trial, the failure to notify is moot and is not basis for appeal.

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    ...for the last time...IT WASN'T RATIFIED, THEREFORE YOUR ARGUMENT IS WORTHLESS. It was signed. It was NOT ratified.
    It was ratified, but the Supreme Court has ruled that treaties are enforceable only if Congress enacts laws implementing the treaty language or if the treaties are "self-executing". In other words, international treaties are enforceable only when Congress passes a domestic law confirming the treaty requirements.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    It was ratified, but the Supreme Court has ruled that treaties are enforceable only if Congress enacts laws implementing the treaty language or if the treaties are "self-executing". In other words, international treaties are enforceable only when Congress passes a domestic law confirming the treaty requirements.
    Mere semantics.

    Congress has not passed a law to implement the Convention, and required states to abide by it. The treaty is essentially not ratified. We, despite being a signatory state, have not ratified this treaty as a nation. We're even listed as a nation that signed, but has not ratified, the treaty here: Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties between States and International Organizations or Between International Organizations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Despite the so-called "foreign policy implications" the issue has not been important enough for Congress to tackle, despite the fact that the World Court convicted us of violating the treaty seven years ago, so that argument is out the window.

    You can't trump a lower court ruling with a treaty that has not gone through the entire ratification procedure, just because the president is trying to change the law.

    Period.
    Last edited by Jeezy; 07-08-11 at 04:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josie
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    Mere semantics.

    Congress has not passed a law to implement the Convention, and required states to abide by it. The treaty is essentially not ratified. We, despite being a signatory state, have not ratified this treaty as a nation. We're even listed as a nation that signed, but has not ratified, the treaty here: Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties between States and International Organizations or Between International Organizations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Despite the so-called "foreign policy implications" the issue has not been important enough for Congress to tackle, despite the fact that the World Court convicted us of violating the treaty seven years ago, so that argument is out the window.

    You can't trump a lower court ruling with a treaty that has not gone through the entire ratification procedure, just because the president is trying to change the law.

    Period.
    Wrong treaty. The applicable treaty is the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    while you cannot speak for gill, are you now acknowledging that the criminal never received the mexican government representation to which he was entitled prior to and during trial
    Neither he nor his counsel (lawyers) asked for it. It wasn't raised as an issue at the time. His nationality was not raised as an issue either until much later.

    That he never received Mexican representation has never been open to question and would not have made any difference in the final outcome anyway. The bastardo was guilty as hell and deserved what he got, just later rather than sooner.

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