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Thread: Mexican national executed in Texas

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Yeah, I don't see why we don't just throw out our rule of law and principles in order to nail those scumbags. I mean everybody else is doing it. Pakistan executes blasphemers; why not us? China has nothing close to a what could be called fair trials, and they execute more people than us. Come on, everybody, we need to step it up! Don't forget about Myanmar. Hell, they're even more corrupt than Mexico. I think that our police can beat em'.

    Or we could stick to our treaty obligations, give the accused due process, and not copy the mistakes of other governments just because the defendant comes from there as an accident of birth.
    Do you have any evidence that, during his trial, the accused was not given due process?

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you have any evidence that, during his trial, the accused was not given due process?
    the absence of mexican counsel intervention in his case is evidence of it
    unless you can offer proof that he waived such right
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Try following along Here. I know it's difficult because the execution has got your blood lust up -it happens. The point is not whether the crime he committed was worthy of execution. The point is that we violated international law by not allowing him access to the Mexican Consulate. We could have done that and still tried and executed him. INTERNATIONAL LAW. It's what American citizens benefit from when they get arrested overseas. The kid in Singapore got to do it. The people 'hiking' in Iran got to do it.
    What you are saying is untrue, and a little research will set you right.

    He was not denied access to the Mexican Consulate. No one at the time of his trial knew he was Mexican. Because he had lived in America since he was two it was assumed by everyone that he was American. Unless you can demonstrate clearly that he was ever denied access to the Mexican Consulate before or during his trial, you should cease making these charges.


    It's not that complicated, unless of course you don't believe that countries reciprocate on this stuff. Oh wait, since most of you don't give a damn what happens anywhere else in the world and have never traveled beyond the borders of your own probably red-neck state, I can see why you don't care.
    But you're from a more sophisticated part of the world, are you? Where might that be?

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the absence of mexican counsel intervention in his case is evidence of it
    unless you can offer proof that he waived such right
    You want me to prove a negative?

    Why would anyone involved the Mexican Consulate if no one knew, including the defendant himself, that he was Mexican?

    Do you think countries should send notices to consulates throughout the world to be on the alert in case they have arrested a non-American, despite no claims being made that such is the case?
    Last edited by Grant; 07-08-11 at 12:15 PM.

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you have any evidence that, during his trial, the accused was not given due process?
    Look, I don't know how many times this has to be stated. When the US signs a treaty and the Senate ratifies said treaty, that document becomes law. I don't mean like those non-binding UN resolutions. I mean bona-fide, American-as-mom-and-apple-pie US law. We signed and ratified a treaty stipulating that all foreigners accused of a crime would be given access to their home country's consul. If you were accused of a crime in a foreign country where you did not understand the proceedings, your rights, or much else about the system, would you consider that a fair trial? No, you would want American consul, and as long as that country signed and ratified the same treaty that we did, they are obligated to meet this demand. This man was not given the protection afforded to him in court by the law. This is denial of due process.
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    If a treaty was ignored, then so was due process. This is the case because the U.S. congress ratified the Vienna Convention... so we didn't just break UN law, we broke our own that we agreed to uphold.
    He was given access to Mexican Consulates......as soon the authorities found out he was a Mexican National.

    As for breaking laws, that is done all the time by our government. Obama just told the Justice Department to stop enforcing the Defense of Marriage Act. He is also breaking, or ignoring which is the same thing, a federal law.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    He was given access to Mexican Consulates......as soon the authorities found out he was a Mexican National.

    As for breaking laws, that is done all the time by our government. Obama just told the Justice Department to stop enforcing the Defense of Marriage Act. He is also breaking, or ignoring which is the same thing, a federal law.
    he was given access to mexican counsel? then what was all that hubbub about?
    please offer us a cite evidencing his receipt of mexican counsel and make this (and its companion) thread go away
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  8. #138
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    he was given access to mexican counsel? then what was all that hubbub about?
    please offer us a cite evidencing his receipt of mexican counsel and make this (and its companion) thread go away
    It was in the story linked in the OP:

    Leal claimed he did not learn of his consular access right until two years after his capital conviction. He said he learned of the right not from any official, but from a fellow prisoner.

    Eventually, between 2010 and 2011, Leal was visited by a representative of the Mexican government more than 10 times, said Judy Garces, press relations spokeswoman with the Mexican Consulate in San Antonio
    .

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Look, I don't know how many times this has to be stated. When the US signs a treaty and the Senate ratifies said treaty, that document becomes law. I don't mean like those non-binding UN resolutions. I mean bona-fide, American-as-mom-and-apple-pie US law. We signed and ratified a treaty stipulating that all foreigners accused of a crime would be given access to their home country's consul. If you were accused of a crime in a foreign country where you did not understand the proceedings, your rights, or much else about the system, would you consider that a fair trial? No, you would want American consul, and as long as that country signed and ratified the same treaty that we did, they are obligated to meet this demand. This man was not given the protection afforded to him in court by the law. This is denial of due process.
    Perhaps you haven't read the original article or the responses to your pointless posts but before, during, and after the trial, no one was aware of this treaty or that this guy was even a Mexican. If the Mexican, as he was, had known, he could certainly have called the Mexican Consulate, as his lawyers might alsso have done.

    Certainly there was a treaty but no one, including his lawyers, were aware that their defendant was Mexican and they quite likely never heard of this treaty either.

    The Supreme Court has ruled that while the treaty was ignored, unwittingly, it really made no difference to the case.

    Ultimately more defense lawyers, and illegals, will hear of this case and demand to call their Consulate, which is their right. And this could be good for the United States as well because the Consulates could end up paying for the defense, and jail bills, rather than the American taxpayer.

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    I'm somewhat torn on this .. The state's concern would be to follow the laws of the state . . prosecute the person based on the evidence. It would seem to me that it's up to the defense to bring this up during the trial .. while some here keep blaming the state saying they should have known, why is it that they aren't asking why this killer didn't inform his attorney, or for that matter the police when they were questioning him? What makes it the responsibility of the state, more then of the individual or his defense team?

    As for concerns over this effecting our citizens going to another country, I'm not sure I could feel sorry for them if they waited two years to tell anyone that they were American. Just taking a guess here .. but I'm pretty sure that 99% of them that are arrested in another country, that is probably one of the first things they tell everyone ..

    Another thing that I'm confused about … it's being said that we broke some sort of international law... yet our very own SC said we didn't .. While I agree we are a nation that should obey our laws, I'm confused as to where we are suppose to go beyond the Supreme Court to find out if we are. They refused to deny the execution, so by their judgment we did in fact obey all the laws.

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