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Thread: Mexican national executed in Texas

  1. #121
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Assuming it's true that Texas did not know he was a foreign national until well after his case was tried and appealed, how do you think they should have gone about it?
    I find it amazing that determining the citizenship status of a defendant is not standard operating procedure in an investigation... well, it is obvious that it should be...
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    No, just the one that REQUIRES notification that as a foreign national he has the right to contact his consulate.
    Maybe he should have told them he was not a citizen and I'm sure they would have allowed him to contact his consulate.

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  3. #123
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Yes, we have an obligation under our treaty committment to notify the consulate, but foreign nationals do not have a judicially enforceable right to consular access.
    The Constitution states that all judges are to regard treaties as the law of the land. Given that fact, how does this NOT become judicially enforceable?
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  4. #124
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    for this to be a valid justification for not providing the alien prisoner his counselor rights, we would have to believe tejas was never aware of his mexican citizenship
    and we know that was not the case
    thus, it is not a valid excuse for our nation's failure to allow due process
    If the murderer was not aware he was a Mexican, his defense lawyers not aware he was a Mexican, and the police not aware he was a Mexican, how can you expect others to know? It seemed everyone, including the defendant himself, assumed he was an American.

    Not until a decade later did any any in-depth investigation occur, probably in a search for loopholes, that uncovered the truth.

    They'll probably start paying closer attention to this now, if the ACLU lets them, but it won't make much difference. Illegal aliens will still be executed in Texas for murdering its citizens, though they should obviously start working on the time lag once they are found guilty.

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    It an overstatement to say that this person was executed without due process. Why do I get the feeling no amount of due process would be enough for you. Isn't all this really just a case of opposing the death penalty?
    If a treaty was ignored, then so was due process. This is the case because the U.S. congress ratified the Vienna Convention... so we didn't just break UN law, we broke our own that we agreed to uphold.

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    If a treaty was ignored, then so was due process. This is the case because the U.S. congress ratified the Vienna Convention... so we didn't just break UN law, we broke our own that we agreed to uphold.

    And for this the United States should suffer a heavy penalty, one that should make them pay for years.

    How about re-electing Barrack Obama? That oughtta do it.

  7. #127
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Texas Urged To Stop Mexican National's Execution : NPR

    He found out it was his right to seek legal counsel from Mexico at the time of his arrest from a prison inmate.
    not quite true the way you present this ....

    The state argued that Leal -- who has lived in the United States since age 2 -- never revealed his Mexican citizenship at the time of arrest, and his defense team never raised the consular access issue at or before trial.
    Leal claimed he did not learn of his consular access right until two years after his capital conviction. He said he learned of the right not from any official, but from a fellow prisoner

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    Americans never could expect good treatment in Mexico. You forget about the Federales, the most corrupt military police force in Mexico, the whole world. They have been brutalizing Americans who find their way down in Mexico for years, and when they don't have Americans to roust, they are busy beating up their own citizens. Where have you been? Also Mexico doesn't provide English translations on the products they sell in their stores, nor do they cater to non-Spanish speakers. Why don't you know this?
    Yeah, I don't see why we don't just throw out our rule of law and principles in order to nail those scumbags. I mean everybody else is doing it. Pakistan executes blasphemers; why not us? China has nothing close to a what could be called fair trials, and they execute more people than us. Come on, everybody, we need to step it up! Don't forget about Myanmar. Hell, they're even more corrupt than Mexico. I think that our police can beat em'.

    Or we could stick to our treaty obligations, give the accused due process, and not copy the mistakes of other governments just because the defendant comes from there as an accident of birth.
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  9. #129
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The Constitution states that all judges are to regard treaties as the law of the land. Given that fact, how does this NOT become judicially enforceable?
    When the treaty itself doesn't create a judicially enforceable right.

    This one has as its only mode of enforcement referral of one nation by another to the UN the security council. That's what we agreed to. That's what was signed. That's what was ratified. If you want the treaty committments to be enforced in our domestic courts, you need to get Congress to address that issue.

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Didn't we allow that one kid to get caned in the Phillipene's or somewhere like that some years ago for vandalizing cars?

    If the situations were reversed and an American citizen did this in another country, to one of their citizens, you bet your ass I'm ok with them carrying out an execution.
    Try following along Here. I know it's difficult because the execution has got your blood lust up -it happens. The point is not whether the crime he committed was worthy of execution. The point is that we violated international law by not allowing him access to the Mexican Consulate. We could have done that and still tried and executed him. INTERNATIONAL LAW. It's what American citizens benefit from when they get arrested overseas. The kid in Singapore got to do it. The people 'hiking' in Iran got to do it.

    It's not that complicated, unless of course you don't believe that countries reciprocate on this stuff. Oh wait, since most of you don't give a damn what happens anywhere else in the world and have never traveled beyond the borders of your own probably red-neck state, I can see why you don't care.

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