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Thread: Mexican national executed in Texas

  1. #91
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    The light green countries are ones that have signed but not ratified the treaty.



    ....aaand that's the end of that.
    Umm, not exactly because you have the wrong map. This is the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties. We are talking about the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, which the U.S. has most definately signed and ratified.

    Thanks for playing, but this is a complete FAIL!
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Who gives a fcuk at this point.

    Fact, he'd been here since he was 2 YEARS OLD. Illegally I might add. He's dead.

    No civilized country is going to retaliate on behalf of this scumbag, that's just a bunch of anti-DP hand wringing hoping to push their agenda forward.
    I care because the US violated its treaty commitments. The US calls itself a nation based on the rule of law, but the government of the State of Texas did not abide by that rule of law. The US violated a commitment in a treaty that was signed by the President and ratified by the Senate.

    Yes, he deserved to die by all accounts, but Texas should have done it the correct way.
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I care because the US violated its treaty commitments. The US calls itself a nation based on the rule of law, but the government of the State of Texas did not abide by that rule of law. The US violated a commitment in a treaty that was signed by the President and ratified by the Senate.

    Yes, he deserved to die by all accounts, but Texas should have done it the correct way.
    Cue the death penalty is a states right issue and Texas is above all that nonsense argument in.... 3.... 2.... 1....
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    WELL. Rick Perry for President.


    the kinds of people who do this sort of thing to young girls (and boys)?

    In my darker moments I only regret the shame we can't execute them twice.

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    I expected the general public to root for the guy's execution with no regard for the treaty system, but the fact that the upper political levels endorsed such a move disturbs me greatly. This isn't even about the death penalty, but keeping our word as a country. We signed a document in good faith with other nations and that means something important, whether or not we want to admit it. If the treaty system is bunk then so is the whole international system and we might as well return to pure anarchy again.

    This move does definitely increase risk to Americans abroad. And yes, if you commit a crime on foreign soil, you should be tried in their system... but having legal access to a representative of your country is a huge upside to the consular treaty. Innocent or guilty, our people have no hope of defending themselves abroad if they are subjected to proceedings in unfamiliar territory, their rights are unknown, and if they don't even speak the language. If they are guilty they can rot overseas, but the treaties make sure that everything is being done to ensure fair and due process if it's possible. Consulates know your rights better than you do in the host country, and the best course of action.

    SCOTUS ruled that failure to provide foreign nationals with access to their consular authority does not mean the case gets voided. They ruled solidly on that in both 2006 and 2008, and now the courts are standing by that precedent again now. They CAN do this, and they HAVE. But that's not my point - which is, the treaty system means something and this just pisses in the face of it. It shows the world - yet again - that America is a one way street and its toted values are hot air.

    We could have fulfilled his treaty rights and still executed him, but blind ignorance wins yet again.

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
    I understand, but I still believe that the government should have no right to take life away. They can take liberty away, because that's a necessity. You can't have violent criminals in society. But life is a fundamental right, or it should be. The death penalty frankly disgusts me.
    That's great. The thought of a scumbag killer dying in prison 40 years later induces in me nauseousness. In fact, I'm all for bringing back public executions.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Cue the death penalty is a states right issue and Texas is above all that nonsense argument in.... 3.... 2.... 1....
    And normally I would actually be sympathetic with such an argument, except that treaty commitments trump state law in this case...
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    And normally I would actually be sympathetic with such an argument, except that treaty commitments trump state law in this case...
    Well, he did in fact have access to a foreign consulate, he just never asked for it and when he wanted it was too late. Are you really sure Texas breach federal law?

    I also completely disagree with your notion that US should follow all treaties we sign, and not just the ones who are approved by congress. If we have to follow all treaties we sign, then that would give Obama tremendous power.

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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Well, he did in fact have access to a foreign consulate, he just never asked for it and when he wanted it was too late. Are you really sure Texas breach federal law?

    I also completely disagree with your notion that US should follow all treaties we sign, and not just the ones who are approved by congress. If we have to follow all treaties we sign, then that would give Obama tremendous power.
    Did Texas inform him he had the right? That is part of the treaty.

    Sign AND ratify... The Senate plays a role as well...

    And Texas breached Article VI of the Constitution...
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    Re: Mexican national executed in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Did Texas inform him he had the right? That is part of the treaty.

    Sign AND ratify... The Senate plays a role as well...

    And Texas breached Article VI of the Constitution...
    They didn't know he was a Mexican and he has lived here since he was 2 years old. If he doesn't inform them that he is a Mexican, then why should they inform him about consular access.

    Also, he did get access to a representative of the Mexican government when he told them that he was a Mexican.

    Leal claimed he did not learn of his consular access right until two years after his capital conviction. He said he learned of the right not from any official, but from a fellow prisoner.

    Eventually, between 2010 and 2011, Leal was visited by a representative of the Mexican government more than 10 times, said Judy Garces, press relations spokeswoman with the Mexican Consulate in San Antonio.

    The state argued that Leal -- who has lived in the United States since age 2 -- never revealed his Mexican citizenship at the time of arrest, and his defense team never raised the consular access issue at or before trial.
    Last edited by Camlon; 07-08-11 at 07:27 AM.

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