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Thread: ĎDonít Ask, Donít Tellí Ban Must Take Effect, Court Rules

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    Re: ĎDonít Ask, Donít Tellí Ban Must Take Effect, Court Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The hyperbolic strawmaning is strong with this one


    Its not out of the question and definitely true that some homosexuals can be sexually attracted to straight individuals, even if it's simply based on looks. To suggest otherwise is simply denying reality.

    As such, it is not a bigoted view to prefer to not be in close living Quarters with someone who may find you sexually appealing, that such would make you uncomfortable. Despite much machismo on the part of some males, I don't doubt a fair bit of the male population would feel the same way closely bunking up with women who they didn't find particularly attractive.

    It's nothing about thinking your naked looks will cause a gay feeding frenzy, simply the reasonable notion that some homosexuals may find heterosexuals sexually attractive.
    I don't say you are wrong but to have a problem with it to the degree where new training is involved is a far cry from what is being said. I am still trying to figure out what the negative is in this gays have been serving since the first. If someone has a problem with knowing they are gay they should seek individual counseling.
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    Re: ĎDonít Ask, Donít Tellí Ban Must Take Effect, Court Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Violence, break downs in discipline, morale and unit cohesion.
    There will indeed be occasional occurrences of violence and breakdowns in discipline but they will have no effect on the capabilities of our forces overall.

    As for moral and unit cohesion, I just don’t see this happening at all.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: ĎDonít Ask, Donít Tellí Ban Must Take Effect, Court Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    I don't say you are wrong but to have a problem with it to the degree where new training is involved is a far cry from what is being said.
    You weren't indicating just those ho would need ne training, but rather suggesting anyone bothered by it MUST be a bigot. To me, your comment is no less close minded and bigoted then many homophobes. It's gross hyperbole, stereotyping, and insulting people for not being hoe you want them to be.

    Someone once told me that being wrongfully targeted, regardless of the reason, is a bad thing and something that anyone else suffering such a thing, from a homosexual to a geek to a handicapped person, to even a popular kid should sympathize with. Wrongfully and hurtfully labeling anyone that would be uncomfortable or have an issue with this in any ay as a bigot is wrong and of all people on here you should know that. Insulting people based on stereotypes and hyperbole rather than truth because. You dislike their action or view is bigotrd

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    Re: ĎDonít Ask, Donít Tellí Ban Must Take Effect, Court Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You weren't indicating just those ho would need ne training, but rather suggesting anyone bothered by it MUST be a bigot. To me, your comment is no less close minded and bigoted then many homophobes. It's gross hyperbole, stereotyping, and insulting people for not being hoe you want them to be.

    Someone once told me that being wrongfully targeted, regardless of the reason, is a bad thing and something that anyone else suffering such a thing, from a homosexual to a geek to a handicapped person, to even a popular kid should sympathize with. Wrongfully and hurtfully labeling anyone that would be uncomfortable or have an issue with this in any ay as a bigot is wrong and of all people on here you should know that. Insulting people based on stereotypes and hyperbole rather than truth because. You dislike their action or view is bigotrd
    If having a personal problem with people who are black is considered bigotry than the same would hold true of people who have a personal problem with someone who is homosexual. If it is not bigotry what than is it called? Would you prefer that I call them stupid biased assholes? Bigotry can come in many forms from just being ignorant to violence. It is not always colored the same way.

    Bigotry is discrimination. Any form or discrimination. No matter how small or how large. If a person has a problem with gays to any degree it is bigotry. What else do we call that. Do you have a better term or are you just flapping your fingers against the keyboard to attack me because I am gay and have a different opinion than you do?
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    Re: ĎDonít Ask, Donít Tellí Ban Must Take Effect, Court Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    If having a personal problem with people who are black is considered bigotry than the same would hold true of people who have a personal problem with someone who is homosexual.
    I feel uncomfortable working with people who don't respect personal space and generally have issues working with them. Would you state I'm bigoted towards people who don't respect personal space? Some people are uncomfortable working with people who talk a lot about their sex lives and have issues working with them. Are those people bigoted against sexually open people? Some individuals feel uncomfortable significantly older than them and prefer not to work with them due to issues relating and communicating well? Are those individuals bigoted against old people?

    Its ridiculous to think that people can't be uncomfortable about a certain group of people or feel that they would work less optimally with them in a general sense MUST be bigots.

    Bigotry can come in many forms from just being ignorant to violence.
    You are demonstrating this point rather well.

    I've got no issue with you being gay. It has nothing to do with you being gay. It has everything to do with you insulting an entire grouping of people baselessly. Being gay doesn't give you a special card to make your own bigoted statements any less bigoted.

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    Re: ĎDonít Ask, Donít Tellí Ban Must Take Effect, Court Rules

    Where this thread is going is kind of funny.

    If I am in a combat situation and all I have is an 80 pound pack and another soldier covering my ass, I am not going to care if that soldier is male, female, gay, straight or green with purple polka dots, as long as they are doing what they are supposed to do.

    The same goes for any other job I would be assigned.

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    Re: ĎDonít Ask, Donít Tellí Ban Must Take Effect, Court Rules

    I think for the vast majority of our military, when push comes to shove, they are mature and disciplined enough to do their job regardless of their personal feelings on the matter. I really don't see this causing a gigantic problem or significant issues. I see no reason why implimenting it quickly rather than a slow roll out is going to cause some huge conflict or chaos. I think more highly of our soldiers than that. I think there will be a small percentage that have issues with it to the point where they act out, in which case they are not of the correct mentality or discipline to be serving in the position anyways imho. To quote a popular poem...Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do or die. Your superiors give you orders you don't like, you've got options but simply disregarding them is going to have consequences.

    I'm sure there will be some in the middle area that are a bit uncomfortable in the situation but handle it fine. I've got no issue with that, people are uncomfortable about different things all the time. I'm sure being stuck in a unit that smells horrendously all the way up to being stuck in afghanistan, is an uncomfortable situation...soldiers deal with it.

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    Re: ĎDonít Ask, Donít Tellí Ban Must Take Effect, Court Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Some people are uncomfortable being naked and living in close quarters with openly gay men and open lesbians. This is a legitimate concern even though I don't believe it warrants masking someone's sexuality. There is nothing bigoted with that opinion.
    It may or may not be bigoted, but on the whole it's also pretty irrational.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: ĎDonít Ask, Donít Tellí Ban Must Take Effect, Court Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    In the end is a political game. The orders are from the military industrial complex that the US has become. my ass. It is all political and supporting a wayward military that does whatever seems to be the way of the US these days. So doh get a clue as to who is really running your ship. That is why the US spends more money on military than anyone in the world. The US could cut it's military budget in half and still be outspending China who spends the second most by more than double. Maybe it would help to understand what makes up the top end of military before saying that I am picking on the lowly troop that gets sent without reason to the field to be shot at. I feel so sorry for that troop that I think he should be home with her or her family rather than in some other nation doing god knows what.
    OK this is just tinfoil hat rantings now. Just remember we have an all volunteer military.

    You have a good one.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 07-07-11 at 12:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: ĎDonít Ask, Donít Tellí Ban Must Take Effect, Court Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    It may or may not be bigoted, but on the whole it's also pretty irrational.
    I don't know, being uncomfortable has nothing to do with "rational." It is an uncontrolled response for the most part, and a matter of perspective and subjective I would think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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