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Pot and driving:

Lord Tammerlain said:
I have driven while high, and found it to be far more frightening a prospect to driving while drunk ( except when really really pissed but not blacked out drunk)
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Ultimately, I think it's stupid to compare pot to alcohol in terms of being under the influence. Alcohol shuts down your brain functions by suppressing the dopamine receptors. Pot does not do that. People become more conscious from smoking pot. It makes them introspective. I have never come across a single person who got violent while smoking pot; compare that to alcohol. I do not believe that pot is as big of a danger in DUIs as alcohol is.

However... pot gives you what you need. If your nutrition is inadequate, it will make you hungry. If you haven't been sleeping enough, it will make you tired. If you've been sleeping too much, it will give you energy. If you've been hyper, it will calm you down. It's adaptogenic like that. So... if someone falls into the not enough sleep category, then they smoke and drive, they will be a less conscious driver. Compare that to alcohol... where it doesn't matter what your body's state is, it depresses and suppresses your consciousness.

At the end of the day though, most people can smoke pot and get away with driving. They become more conscientious, and so won't get pulled over. And if they do, it's not hard to fake sobriety as it is with alcohol. If someone gets caught with a DUI for pot, then I say good riddance. It means they weren't listening to their own body after they took the stuff.

The law should be applied equally to pot as alocohol, but I don't believe the incidence of DUIs due to pot is as high as alcohol.
 
1Perry said:
Your position is that it should be legal to drive drunk as long as you get home safely?
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But yet drinking is legal. Aside that - we weren't actually talking about drinking and driving so I don't know why you are trying apply one view to the other.
 
Temporal said:
Ultimately, I think it's stupid to compare pot to alcohol in terms of being under the influence. Alcohol shuts down your brain functions by suppressing the dopamine receptors. Pot does not do that. People become more conscious from smoking pot. It makes them introspective. I have never come across a single person who got violent while smoking pot; compare that to alcohol. I do not believe that pot is as big of a danger in DUIs as alcohol is.
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I've been stoned many a times and rarely was I more conscious. I might have been in a tunnel vision sort of way sometimes. I recall sitting at a concert and not realizing it was raining until well after the fact. As far as "bigger danger" that's really an irrelevant arguement. Both put you at a higher risk of an accident.

However... pot gives you what you need. If your nutrition is inadequate, it will make you hungry. If you haven't been sleeping enough, it will make you tired. If you've been sleeping too much, it will give you energy. If you've been hyper, it will calm you down. It's adaptogenic like that. So... if someone falls into the not enough sleep category, then they smoke and drive, they will be a less conscious driver. Compare that to alcohol... where it doesn't matter what your body's state is, it depresses and suppresses your consciousness.
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Hungry? I dunno, maybe. I never had the stereotypical munchies and It never gave me more energy. Does it for someone undergoing cancer treatment? I can't say.

At the end of the day though, most people can smoke pot and get away with driving. They become more conscientious, and so won't get pulled over. And if they do, it's not hard to fake sobriety as it is with alcohol. If someone gets caught with a DUI for pot, then I say good riddance. It means they weren't listening to their own body after they took the stuff.
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Most drunk drivers make it home safely at the end of the day.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
But yet drinking is legal. Aside that - we weren't actually talking about drinking and driving so I don't know why you are trying apply one view to the other.
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I don't believe that answered my question. Your position seems to be here that driving under the influence of pot shouldn't be illegal as long as you make it home safely. Why the different standard?
 
Temporal said:
Ultimately, I think it's stupid to compare pot to alcohol in terms of being under the influence. Alcohol shuts down your brain functions by suppressing the dopamine receptors. Pot does not do that. People become more conscious from smoking pot. It makes them introspective. I have never come across a single person who got violent while smoking pot; compare that to alcohol. I do not believe that pot is as big of a danger in DUIs as alcohol is.

However... pot gives you what you need. If your nutrition is inadequate, it will make you hungry. If you haven't been sleeping enough, it will make you tired. If you've been sleeping too much, it will give you energy. If you've been hyper, it will calm you down. It's adaptogenic like that. So... if someone falls into the not enough sleep category, then they smoke and drive, they will be a less conscious driver. Compare that to alcohol... where it doesn't matter what your body's state is, it depresses and suppresses your consciousness.

At the end of the day though, most people can smoke pot and get away with driving. They become more conscientious, and so won't get pulled over. And if they do, it's not hard to fake sobriety as it is with alcohol. If someone gets caught with a DUI for pot, then I say good riddance. It means they weren't listening to their own body after they took the stuff.

The law should be applied equally to pot as alocohol, but I don't believe the incidence of DUIs due to pot is as high as alcohol.
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I am not saying pot should be illegal, just that I dont want people driving while high, just as I would rather not have people drive drunk.

A couple totes or a couple drinks no problem, but doing so while impaired, there is a problem
 
1Perry said:
I've been stoned many a times and rarely was I more conscious. I might have been in a tunnel vision sort of way sometimes. I recall sitting at a concert and not realizing it was raining until well after the fact. As far as "bigger danger" that's really an irrelevant arguement. Both put you at a higher risk of an accident.
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I hope you didn't drive, then? Were you also drinking, by the way?


1Perry said:
Hungry? I dunno, maybe. I never had the stereotypical munchies and It never gave me more energy. Does it for someone undergoing cancer treatment? I can't say.
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I don't smoke anymore but when I was younger I did. I never got the munchies either. It affects people differently.

1Perry said:
Most drunk drivers make it home safely at the end of the day.
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I already provided the scientific reason for why alcohol is more likely to cause an accident than pot. Alcohol suppresses dopamine receptors, pot does not.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
I am not saying pot should be illegal, just that I dont want people driving while high, just as I would rather not have people drive drunk.

A couple totes or a couple drinks no problem, but doing so while impaired, there is a problem
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How do you define "high"? Right now the law can drag you away if you have detectable levels of THC in your blood, even if you haven't smoked in over a week.

I don't think we can apply the same methodology to pot as we do to alcohol. They have different standards, affect people differently, and the presence in the body tissues is longer with pot. Up to a month, if I recall.

What if, hypothetically, you breathe in pot smoke second hand, but never smoked? You could be charged with a DUI in some states.
 
Temporal said:
How do you define "high"? Right now the law can drag you away if you have detectable levels of THC in your blood, even if you haven't smoked in over a week.

I don't think we can apply the same methodology to pot as we do to alcohol. They have different standards, affect people differently, and the presence in the body tissues is longer with pot. Up to a month, if I recall.

What if, hypothetically, you breathe in pot smoke second hand, but never smoked? You could be charged with a DUI in some states.
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So what your saying is just give a pass to anyone driving that has weed in thier system..??

Look I stopped reading some of these posts because its obvious some of you are either totally naive or being deceptive intentionally
Marihuana is a psychotropic...it effects motor skills and its a killer....Hardly NO ONE just smokes weed...most weed users are cross addicts or users..coupling weed with alchohol or other drugs...dont even try to pass weed off as harmless please
 
lpast said:
So what your saying is just give a pass to anyone driving that has weed in thier system..??
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All you're proving by asking this question is that you don't know how to read. Sorry that you have literary difficulties :shrug:

The gateway theory has been thoroughly debunked many times. It's like saying people who smoke cigarettes are prone to doing other drugs. I'm sure it's true of some but statistically it's not a trend.

I firmly believe that no matter what intoxicant you are on, you still have basic knowledge of what is happening... i.e. I should or shouldn't get into a car right now. People use alcohol as an excuse to act stupid, and then blame the intoxicant. I've met plenty of drinkers who love to get hammered, but they make accommodations to get home later that don't include driving their own vehicles.

You can blame the intoxicant all you want but there are still underlying choices that people make, and it's those actions which become affected by the intoxicant.

In other words, drinking or smoking do not drive people to make stupid choices. It's the people who do that. It's no different than saying guns kill people. Actually, it's people that kill people.
 
Temporal said:
I hope you didn't drive, then? Were you also drinking, by the way?
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I was not drinking. I do not recall if the driver partook or not.

I don't smoke anymore but when I was younger I did. I never got the munchies either. It affects people differently.
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I certainly can not argue differently here.

I already provided the scientific reason for why alcohol is more likely to cause an accident than pot. Alcohol suppresses dopamine receptors, pot does not.
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"More likely" is an arguement like a "little bit pregnant" IMO.
 
lpast said:
So what your saying is just give a pass to anyone driving that has weed in thier system..??

Look I stopped reading some of these posts because its obvious some of you are either totally naive or being deceptive intentionally
Marihuana is a psychotropic...it effects motor skills and its a killer....Hardly NO ONE just smokes weed...most weed users are cross addicts or users..coupling weed with alchohol or other drugs...dont even try to pass weed off as harmless please
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Pot can stay in the system for up to two months. It loses it's effect after a couple of hours. Also, when I smoked weed, I never used other drugs. I don't even smoke cigarettes. You're believing the government propaganda.
 
evanescence said:
Pot can stay in the system for up to two months. It loses it's effect after a couple of hours. Also, when I smoked weed, I never used other drugs. I don't even smoke cigarettes. You're believing the government propaganda.
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I never really did other drugs either. I can't stand cigarette's.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
I have driven while high, and found it to be far more frightening a prospect to driving while drunk ( except when really really pissed but not blacked out drunk)
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Did you get in an accident or even come close? Because, that is, after all what matters here. If it personally freaked you out, but in fact did not make you drive dangerously then it has no bearing on the question.

What Dave described is actually what is most commonly mentioned in studies and one of the cited reasons in said studies for people having far less accidents when driving high than when driving drunk. Also, people in slow-speed accidents tend to come away with far less injury, if they are injured at all. So, even if someone who is high gets in an accident it is likely to be less serious than a drunk-driving accident where the effects make you drive faster and recklessly.

Some studies do indicate that people who smoke pot are more likely to be in an accident than the average driver, but, as I noted earlier, the levels are still well below someone with a blood-alcohol level below the legal limit or using certain prescriptions. The odds are roughly equivalent to those for someone who is younger or older than the average driver.
 
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1Perry said:
I don't believe that answered my question. Your position seems to be here that driving under the influence of pot shouldn't be illegal as long as you make it home safely. Why the different standard?
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You say that as if I've developed a personal affinity for weed smokers or something. Scientifically: they're different substances completely - of course they can't be weighed on the same 'standards' scale. You're looking at two different substances that affect and intoxicate in different ways and assuming they can be measured the same - and they can't.

Blood & Urine Drug Testing for Cannabinoids

Alcohol in the blood is a good determination for how much "under the influence" on person's body and mind is.

THC levels in the blood simply shows whether or not someone has been exposed to it.

Most blood and urine tests for the presence of cannabinoids differ from alcohol test results as these measure inactive metabolites of cannabis, and not the active drug itself. Alcohol produces clear dose-related impairment as measured by breath, blood or urine tests. The presence of cannabinoids in urine merely signifies that the person had used or been exposed to cannabis at some point prior to the test.
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Most urine tests only detect an inactive metabolite - THC carboxylic acid. The results for cannabinoid metabolites in urine are of no significance whatsoever in determining intoxication or performance impairment, as the THC-acid is not an active compound, and can persist for many weeks after chronic use. Presence of active drug (i.e. THC - delta-9- tetrahydrocannabinol), or active metabolite 11-hydroxy THC - present in the period shortly following smoking of cannabis) would indicate recent use capable of causing intoxication or impairment.
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Don't debate blind - read up on how THC is stored and processed in the body and then you'll know all about it.

If we were talking about alcohol - if it's in your system it's affecting you. Your body doesn't store it in it's fatty tissues and the body filters out alcohol in a comparitively short amount of time. If I get plastered tonight I'd pass an alcohol test tomorrow afternoon. If I smoked weed tonight I'd fail a test tomorrow. . . but tomorrow afternoon: am I under the influence of anything? No.

Regardless: my views don't circle around people smoking it - I could care less and consider it to be a menial 'use' of it . .. it's has far more benefit as purely a supply of fiber and/or medicinal purposes as well as for purification processes (pertaining to contaminated soils - etc)
 
Aunt Spiker said:
You say that as if I've developed a personal affinity for weed smokers or something. Scientifically: they're different substances completely - of course they can't be weighed on the same 'standards' scale. You're looking at two different substances that affect and intoxicate in different ways and assuming they can be measured the same - and they can't.

Blood & Urine Drug Testing for Cannabinoids

Alcohol in the blood is a good determination for how much "under the influence" on person's body and mind is.

THC levels in the blood simply shows whether or not someone has been exposed to it.
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If you read my very first post in this thread made today you would note where I mention that is a problem.


Don't debate blind - read up on how THC is stored and processed in the body and then you'll know all about it.

If we were talking about alcohol - if it's in your system it's affecting you. Your body doesn't store it in it's fatty tissues and the body filters out alcohol in a comparitively short amount of time. If I get plastered tonight I'd pass an alcohol test tomorrow afternoon. If I smoked weed tonight I'd fail a test tomorrow. . . but tomorrow afternoon: am I under the influence of anything? No.

Regardless: my views don't circle around people smoking it - I could care less and consider it to be a menial 'use' of it . .. it's has far more benefit as purely a supply of fiber and/or medicinal purposes as well as for purification processes (pertaining to contaminated soils - etc)
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And after all of that you still refuse to address the question.
 
1Perry said:
If you read my very first post in this thread made today you would note where I mention that is a problem.




And after all of that you still refuse to address the question.
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"Your position is that it should be legal to drive drunk as long as you get home safely?"

No - that it not my view about drunk driving. :shrug: I was not discussing drunk driving.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
"Your position is that it should be legal to drive drunk as long as you get home safely?"

No - that it not my view about drunk driving. :shrug: I was not discussing drunk driving.
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No, but that was your position with pot. Why the double standard? Are you going to take up the completely asinine dismissable arguement that being high doesn't affect your driving?
 
1Perry said:
No, but that was your position with pot. Why the double standard? Are you going to take up the completely asinine dismissable arguement that being high doesn't affect your driving?
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Ok: there's being "high" or "under the influence of a substance" and then there's "having THC in your blood" - you can tell if someone's smoked weed and is 'high' - per that link I gave it specifies this.

I thought you were clear on these differences between these things since you agree that testing THC levels is futile.

And beyond stating these differences I can't help you much more - if you don't get what I am and am not discussing at this point then oh well.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Ok: there's being "high" or "under the influence of a substance" and then there's "having THC in your blood" - you can tell if someone's smoked weed and is 'high' - per that link I gave it specifies this.

I thought you were clear on these differences between these things since you agree that testing THC levels is futile.
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I don't think it's futile.

And beyond stating these differences I can't help you much more - if you don't get what I am and am not discussing at this point then oh well.
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If someone smokes and is under the influence should they be arrested for driving under the influence?
 
lpast said:
So what your saying is just give a pass to anyone driving that has weed in thier system..??

Look I stopped reading some of these posts because its obvious some of you are either totally naive or being deceptive intentionally
Marihuana is a psychotropic...it effects motor skills and its a killer....Hardly NO ONE just smokes weed...most weed users are cross addicts or users..coupling weed with alchohol or other drugs...dont even try to pass weed off as harmless please
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Where do you get that most weed users are cross addicts? Is this your perceptions because in your profession that's what you ran into. The people you never caught may have only been weed users.
 
Every time any article appears implicating pot in an auto accident, especially if a life is taken, pot legalization experiences further setbacks.

The only way the vanguard of opposition (older, female, married, with children) will accept legalization is if we can show that legalization won't kill more of their children.

Studies have already shown that legalization will greatly increase traffic fatalities, not to mention make access for teenagers much easier just like an end to prohibition made alcohol so much easier for teens to get (parents' cupboards, 21 year-old older "bro/sis" purchase at the corner liquor store, etc.).

Again .. it just seems that pot dens are the way to go.

Then once the camel gets its nose under the tent ...
 
Ontologuy said:
Every time any article appears implicating pot in an auto accident, especially if a life is taken, pot legalization experiences further setbacks.

The only way the vanguard of opposition (older, female, married, with children) will accept legalization is if we can show that legalization won't kill more of their children.
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People who get high and operate a vehicle don't care about the legal status. I don't see the leap in logic that if marijuana was legal that they would decide to drive while under the influence of it.

Ontologuy said:
Studies have already shown that legalization will greatly increase traffic fatalities, not to mention make access for teenagers much easier just like an end to prohibition made alcohol so much easier for teens to get (parents' cupboards, 21 year-old older "bro/sis" purchase at the corner liquor store, etc.).
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Actually, it's black market status makes it easier for kids to get it. Ask any kid which is easier for them to purchase, weed or alcohol?

Ontologuy said:
Again .. it just seems that pot dens are the way to go.

Then once the camel gets its nose under the tent ...
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Until then, I'll just keep smoking hash browns.
 
Thorgasm said:
People who get high and operate a vehicle don't care about the legal status. I don't see the leap in logic that if marijuana was legal that they would decide to drive while under the influence of it.
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The arguement is more would partake because it is legal. It's certainly one of the reasons I no longer smoke.
 
1Perry said:
The arguement is more would partake because it is legal. It's certainly one of the reasons I no longer smoke.
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But driving under the influence would still be illegal so you still wouldn't do that even if it were legal to possess weed.
 
Thorgasm said:
But driving under the influence would still be illegal so you still wouldn't do that even if it were legal to possess weed.
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And yet, people drink and drive.
 
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