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Republicans Say They’re Open to ‘Revenue Raisers’

TurtleDude said:
Haymarket works for the democratic party. He knows that the progressive tax system wins elections for the dems when there are more voters getting stuff from the federal government than they are required to pay in taxes. Dems use the wealth of the top payers to buy the votes of a majority. HE defends anything and everything that allows the dems to win elections. When you work for a party and derive your income from being a party employee, you really are a true believer.
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Why do you persist in making personal attacks upon me based on lies? I have told you repeatedly that I am employed by the State of Michigan. I do exactly the same job that more Republicans do.

Why do you keep lying about this?

Why do you keep ignoring that it was Republicans who led the fight for the Progressive Income Tax that you hate and instead demagogue Democrats?

Why do you use this 47% nonsense when it has been shown to you repeatedly that such Bush tax cuts were passed by Republicans in both houses in Congress over two different Bush led tax cuts with only a very small amount of Democratic support?

When are you going to start dealing with actual facts instead of your perverted versions of ideological Frankenstien monsters of your own creation?
 
TurtleDude said:
Haymarket is going to whine that paying state sales tax, SS "tax" and gasoline tax exempts that 46% from federal taxes
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Haymarket makes no such statement and stop putting words in my mouth. Speak for yourself and nobody else.
 
I'm pretty sure I've seen that statement...
 
ecofarm said:
I'm pretty sure I've seen that statement...
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he was constantly quoting some union propaganda 2 page circular which claimed that counting (there was no reference to actual data) state sin taxes, property taxes and tons of other state taxes, the poor paid almost the same tax rates as the rich.

this claim had no verifiable data and made tons of assumptions and ignored massive state taxes on the rich such as state death taxes or income taxes and included ss payments as tax.

it also ignored the fact that the bottom 20% actually get money from the federal government (counting state taxes you fund with money given to you by the federal government was rather dishonest by that union) etc.

So yes you have seen that from Haymarket
 
haymarket said:
so you take this statement from jmac



and attempt to justify it by giving a link which talks about only a single tax paid to a single layer of government while outright ignoring all the other taxes paid to various levels of government by nearly everyone in this nation not a child?

Amazing.
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We are talking about the feds. Nice spin but it shows you have nothing. I pay no state income tax. Florida has no state income tax. The point is the democrats keep taking people off the tax roll to buy votes and then say they need to tax the rich more. The hypocrisy of the democrats is well seen
 
ptif219 said:
We are talking about the feds. Nice spin but it shows you have nothing. I pay no state income tax. Florida has no state income tax. The point is the democrats keep taking people off the tax roll to buy votes and then say they need to tax the rich more. The hypocrisy of the democrats is well seen
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Excuse me?

Which side created the current tax system that lead 47% of people not to pay federal income taxes?

I'll give you a clue, it wasn't the democrats.
 
ecofarm said:
I'm pretty sure I've seen that statement...
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Why I have insisted on every time this subject comes up is that any discussion of taxation in America be honest and include ALL forms of TAXATION paid by ALL citizens to ALL levels of government. It is intellectually dishonest and borders on outright fraud and deception for anyone to focus on a single tax paid to single level of government. The apologists on the far right want to pretend that the large number of regressive taxes that are paid by average working people should not be included in a discussion about taxation since they favor focusing on the only really progressive tax that is suppose to hit the wealthy harder than others. They are dishonest and their intentions are to decieve the American people from a true picture of taxation in America in order to purse a public policy or selfishness and greed.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Excuse me?

Which side created the current tax system that lead 47% of people not to pay federal income taxes?

I'll give you a clue, it wasn't the democrats.
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Of course you are right and history backs you up. It is sad that people allow their belief systems to overload their mental processes and count for more than actual facts and the historical record.

check this out for the actual facts that it was Republicans which pushed and passed this 47% situation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Growth_and_Tax_Relief_Reconciliation_Act_of_2001

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_and_Growth_Tax_Relief_Reconciliation_Act_of_2003
 
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Jetboogieman said:
Excuse me?

Which side created the current tax system that lead 47% of people not to pay federal income taxes?

I'll give you a clue, it wasn't the democrats.
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Does it matter who created it or who is screwing it up? The fact is when it was created it supposed to be temporary which as we see it is still here
 
ptif219 said:
Does it matter who created it or who is screwing it up? The fact is when it was created it supposed to be temporary which as we see it is still here
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Yes it matters a great deal when you yourself spread false information like this

the point is the democrats keep taking people off the tax roll to buy votes and then say they need to tax the rich more.
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The truth always matters.

again,from ptif219

We are talking about the feds. Nice spin but it shows you have nothing.
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NO. the statement was clear and unmistakable

Fact: Half the country pays NO TAXES now
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Please note that the words are capitalized so that they cannot be mistaken for anything else. NO TAXES means NO TAXES means NO TAXES. Is that clear? Or did I miss the words "federal income tax" on my screen in that phrase?
 
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haymarket said:
Of course you are right and history backs you up. It is sad that people allow their belief systems to overload their mental processes and count for more than actual facts and the historical record.

check this out for the actual facts that it was Republicans which pushed and passed this 47% situation

Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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But they'll be damned if they actually go and "fix" the "problem" of 47% "not paying taxes" that the Republicans created in the first place.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Excuse me?

Which side created the current tax system that lead 47% of people not to pay federal income taxes?

I'll give you a clue, it wasn't the democrats.
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both parties did. there were many people who were getting more from the federal government than they paid in income tax long before Bush used this ploy to get dems to vote as well for tax cuts on the rich
 
haymarket said:
Why I have insisted on every time this subject comes up is that any discussion of taxation in America be honest and include ALL forms of TAXATION paid by ALL citizens to ALL levels of government. It is intellectually dishonest and borders on outright fraud and deception for anyone to focus on a single tax paid to single level of government. The apologists on the far right want to pretend that the large number of regressive taxes that are paid by average working people should not be included in a discussion about taxation since they favor focusing on the only really progressive tax that is suppose to hit the wealthy harder than others. They are dishonest and their intentions are to decieve the American people from a true picture of taxation in America in order to purse a public policy or selfishness and greed.
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To many in the middle it seems that the arguments from both ends of the spectrum are dishonest and tend to look for slivers of truth in a pile of bull****. When talking about federal programs it seems that we should be looking at federal revenues to pay for them. If you want to make the argument about federal excise taxes and payroll taxes, that seems a reasonable argument and there are stances on both sides to debate. When you throw in city city and state sales taxes, what does that have to do with a reasoned debate about how the federal government gets in tax receipts.

My sense if that to the great middle of America, they are fed up with half truths and outright lies by both extremes. A pox on both your houses!
 
TurtleDude said:
both parties did.
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Really????? And with equal or nearly equal support from both parties??????

Lets look at the facts:

The 2001 Bush tax cuts had the following votes

House of Representative
Republicans YES 211 NO 0 (thats zero)
Democrats YES 28 NO 153

Senate
Republicans YES 46
Democrats YES 12

2003 Bush tax cut bill
House
Republicans YES 224 NO 1
Democrats YES 7 NO 198

Senate
Republicans YES 48 NO 3
Democrats YES 2 NO 46

Add those YES votes up. Republicans cast a total of 529 YES votes for the two Bush tax cut bills. Democrats cast 49 total votes for the same bills. More than ten Republicans cast YES votes for every one Democrat that cast a YES vote.

Given that this was a Republican President who came up with this idea and that over 91% of the YES votes came from Republicans, the idea floated that this was from both parties, is disingenuous in the extreme. And then for the same person to continually and constantly attack Democrats for making this situation possible, it is bordering on intellectual fraud.
 
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I see, so the world started with George Bush?


j-mac
 
haymarket said:
Really????? And with equal or nearly equal support from both parties??????

Lets look at the facts:

The 2001 Bush tax cuts had the following votes

House of Representative
Republicans YES 211 NO 0 (thats zero)
Democrats YES 28 NO 153

Senate
Republicans YES 46
Democrats YES 12

2003 Bush tax cut bill
House
Republicans YES 224 NO 1
Democrats YES 7 NO 198

Senate
Republicans YES 48 NO 3
Democrats YES 2 NO 46

Add those YES votes up. Republicans cast a total of 529 YES votes for the two Bush tax cut bills. Democrats cast 49 total votes for the same bills. More than ten Republicans cast YES votes for every one Democrat that cast a YES vote.

Given that this was a Republican President who came up with this idea and that over 91% of the YES votes came from Republicans, the idea floated that this was from both parties, is disingenuous in the extreme. And then for the same person to continually and constantly attack Democrats for making this situation possible, it is bordering on intellectual fraud.
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You seem to forget Obama and the democrats have extended those tax cuts
 
Poor haymarket, you still fixate on one vote and you forget what happened all before. remind me what the Wilson era income tax rates applied to in terms of percentages of the population
 
j-mac said:
I see, so the world started with George Bush?


j-mac
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that seems to be true with so many dems.

they forget how the Wilson era government structured the income tax

how the LBJ war on poverty accentuated New Deal handouts

how the New Deal created all sorts of new powers for congress in degradation of the Tenth amendment
 
ptif219 said:
You seem to forget Obama and the democrats have extended those tax cuts
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yeah, cause' unlike the Republicans, we didn't want to see the govt. shutdown.

unlike the GOP, who saw a govt. shutdown as a campaign strategy. selfish bastards.
 
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