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Thread: Republicans Say They’re Open to ‘Revenue Raisers’

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    Re: Republicans Say They’re Open to ‘Revenue Raisers’

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nonsense. Obama has increased the deficit more than every other President combined!
    Obama inherited a $9 trillion deficit. Are you saying the deficit is now $18 trillion?

    thought not.

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    Re: Republicans Say They’re Open to ‘Revenue Raisers’

    The debt was probably 9 trillion dollars when he came in. But other than that you are correct. The idea that Obama has made the national debt exponentially larger than any other President is ridiculous. Don't forget it tripled under Reagan

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    Re: Republicans Say They’re Open to ‘Revenue Raisers’

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Require E-Verify; $5,000 per head fine from the employers, split between the federal government and the agency that makes the bust.
    "Supply side" immigration reform. That's what I have always thought was the solution.

    Working in construction in SD CA gives great insight into this issue, and making it cost prohibitive to use illegal labor seems a lot more productive than demonizing poor people trying to help their families.

    Frankly, the economies so bad right now that many local illegals went home for x-mas and stayed there.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Republicans Say They’re Open to ‘Revenue Raisers’

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Require E-Verify; $5,000 per head fine from the employers, split between the federal government and the agency that makes the bust.
    E Verify is a great program, as is secure communities. Of course ICE isn't doing anything though not at all.

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    Re: Republicans Say They’re Open to ‘Revenue Raisers’

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Fact: Half the country pays NO TAXES now.

    j-mac
    From the article ptif219 linked to (post #225):

    As Bruce Bartlett at The New York Times notes, those in the bottom quintile have incomes of less than $16,812.

    ...

    Bruce Bartlett points out that between 2000 and 2008, during the presidency of George W. Bush, the percentage of filers who paid no federal income tax rose from 25.2 percent to 36.3 percent. During this time, Bartlett says, Republicans added a significant child credit to the tax code, resulting in a rise in nonpayers.

    In fact, the number of filers paying no federal income tax has hovered between 40 and 50 percent for the past several years.
    I point this out because it kinda flies in the face of the Conservative mantra..."keep more of what you earn". Of course, instilling the child tax credit only helped to reduce the gross income of low wage earners that much more, but here's the rub...

    A tax subsidy is a tax subsidy. The question becomes does impossing such a subsidy help the overall economy? Does the child tax credit put more money in the pockets of low-income families and, thus, providing more disposable income and, thus, allowing them to spend and/or save more? You guys (Conservatives) have said so yourselves that all poor people will do with their money is spend it on "things". They can't invest; $16K/annual will buy you very little in today's economy. As such, should the government take away this tax credit for the working poor for the sake of non-investment or should it remain because it spurs 1-time consumer spending (around tax refund time)?
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-05-11 at 06:36 PM.

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    Re: Republicans Say They’re Open to ‘Revenue Raisers’

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Does it matter who created it or who is screwing it up? The fact is when it was created it supposed to be temporary which as we see it is still here
    You do realize you're advocating for the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, right? ALL of them!!

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    Re: Republicans Say They’re Open to ‘Revenue Raisers’

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    From the [tif219;1059618880]article ptif219 linked to (post #225):



    I point this out because it kinda flies in the face of the Conservative mantra..."keep more of what you earn". Of course, instilling the child tax credit only helped to reduce the gross income of low wage earners that much more, but here's the rub...

    A tax subsidy is a tax subsidy. The question becomes does impossing such a subsidy help the overall economy? Does the child tax credit put more money in the pockets of low-income families and, thus, providing more disposable income and, thus, allowing them to spend and/or save more? You guys (Conservatives) have said so yourselves that all poor people will do with their money is spend it on "things". They can't invest; $16K/annual will buy you very little in today's economy. As such, should the government take away this tax credit for the working poor for the sake of non-investment or should it remain because it spurs 1-time consumer spending (around tax refund time)?
    when is a tax deduction a tax subsidy? ans. when it helps someone else!

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    Re: Republicans Say They’re Open to ‘Revenue Raisers’

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Really????? And with equal or nearly equal support from both parties??????

    Lets look at the facts:

    The 2001 Bush tax cuts had the following votes

    House of Representative
    Republicans YES 211 NO 0 (thats zero)
    Democrats YES 28 NO 153

    Senate
    Republicans YES 46
    Democrats YES 12

    2003 Bush tax cut bill
    House
    Republicans YES 224 NO 1
    Democrats YES 7 NO 198

    Senate
    Republicans YES 48 NO 3
    Democrats YES 2 NO 46

    Add those YES votes up. Republicans cast a total of 529 YES votes for the two Bush tax cut bills. Democrats cast 49 total votes for the same bills. More than ten Republicans cast YES votes for every one Democrat that cast a YES vote.

    Given that this was a Republican President who came up with this idea and that over 91% of the YES votes came from Republicans, the idea floated that this was from both parties, is disingenuous in the extreme. And then for the same person to continually and constantly attack Democrats for making this situation possible, it is bordering on intellectual fraud.
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I see, so the world started with George Bush?


    j-mac
    Stop being disingenuous; haymarket just illustrated that this "bottom feeding tax burdern" the Republican/Conservatives have been ranting about particularly since Obama took office was due to Republicans voting overwhelmingly in favor of the tax cuts/credits that have allowed the working poor to pay no federal income taxes. Then you (Reps/Conservs) conveniently frame the argument as if it has been the Democrats/Obama who has given such "gift" to "minorities".

    Hypocrisy stinks! But it smells so good when it's uncovered against those who espouse the falsehoods.

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    Re: Republicans Say They’re Open to ‘Revenue Raisers’

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that seems to be true with so many dems.

    they forget how the Wilson era government structured the income tax

    how the LBJ war on poverty accentuated New Deal handouts

    how the New Deal created all sorts of new powers for congress in degradation of the Tenth amendment
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Not a bitch at all. In fact though you have just a little bit off on your actual history....Income tax probably more accurately goes back to Lincoln in the 1860's...

    j-mac

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    I'm sorry, but if you expect Obama to carry the entire burden irrespective of Bush, then you can't point out who ****ed up much earlier in the game. Common logic must apply.
    BDBoop makes a very good point here. You can't claim that "this is Obama's economy...stop blaming GW Bush" then conveniently climb in your way-back machine(s) to berate how the income tax was structured only to lay today's taxation problems at the feet of the Dems and Pres. Obama only especially when the current argument isn't the tax structure itself, but rather why do the poor pay little to no federal income tax at all. Clearly, Republicans had no problem with this when the passed the 2001 & 2003 Bush era tax cuts. But now...now that the economy is sufferring...now they want to complain about "class warfare" and "redistribution of wealth" when they helped create the income/wealth gap!

    C'mon, man! That's low-ball even for you!!
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-05-11 at 06:49 PM.

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    Re: Republicans Say They’re Open to ‘Revenue Raisers’

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Republicans were way more Left back then, too.
    So, does that mean you'll finally start acknowledging that your side significantly helped to create the economic mess this country now finds itself in, or will you continue to be in denial about the role Republicans have played in helping to nearly bring this country to its knees?

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