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Thread: California Marines Accused of Sham Marriages for Money

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    Re: California Marines Accused of Sham Marriages for Money

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    This still brings us back to the question of what part of a sham marriage makes it illegal, what exactly is the legal basis for precisely determining what is a sham marriage and what is not. I mean, there are plenty of married people who don't really love each other, and there are plenty of estranged couples who remained married but live separately and with other partners. Legally, what's the difference? Can someone explain this to me? Thanks.
    The IRS and ICE have standards for "sham" marriages designed to circumvent both tax and immigration laws. I honestly don't know all the criteria they use during their investigations, but basically it comes down to whether two people knew each other long enough and well enough to engage in a legitimate marriage (how did they meet? did they meet each other's families? what personal information does each partner know about the other... favorite foods, favorite colors, where they grew up, likes and dislikes, intimacy questions, that sort of thing.)

    In this case, the couples involved have outright admitted that the marriages were arranged to fraudulently get off-base housing money. They just want to mitigate that fraud by claiming they had no choice, since they were denied the ability to marry each other. Legally, that excuse doesn't fly. They should be tried for the crime.

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    Re: California Marines Accused of Sham Marriages for Money

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i would submit bill & hillary are not in love (at least not with each other) as a singular example
    their marriage is found legal
    they live apart. bill in harlem and hillary in DC ... rumors have it that the both enjoy the company of women
    marriage is a legal contract. the marines (and one civilian) got married consistent with that legal marriage contract
    now, why is it that the way they chose to live their marriages is found illegal
    But they were in love when they got married. That's the whole point. If you get marry to gain, then your gain is based on fraudulent actions.

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    Re: California Marines Accused of Sham Marriages for Money

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    ok
    two couples got married
    which legal marriages enabled them to enjoy financial benefits provided to legally married couples
    would someone please explain the part where what they did is illegal?
    The federal law makes it illegal no matter what state laws are passed.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: California Marines Accused of Sham Marriages for Money

    Now you guys are making my brain hurt trying to define what is a sham marriage.... but since these people admitted it, I think they are ON the hook.
    I've never been able to understand why a Republican contributor is a 'fat cat' and a Democratic contributor of the same amount of money is a 'public-spirited philanthropist'.
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    Re: California Marines Accused of Sham Marriages for Money

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    The federal law makes it illegal no matter what state laws are passed.
    but i still don't see it
    not trying to be obtuse (... it's a gift, i don't have to try)
    i do recognize these marines have already confessed, so they are toast
    but LOTS of people are in loveless marriages
    lots of people who are married have relations with others outside of their marriage - often with spousal acknowledgment
    marriage is a contract. two people comply with that contract and say their vows and get a marriage license
    what more is required
    or if it is easier to respond to, what about a marriage (short of the couple agreeing it is a sham) then constitutes a sham
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: California Marines Accused of Sham Marriages for Money

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i would submit bill & hillary are not in love (at least not with each other) as a singular example
    their marriage is found legal
    they live apart. bill in harlem and hillary in DC ... rumors have it that the both enjoy the company of women
    marriage is a legal contract. the marines (and one civilian) got married consistent with that legal marriage contract
    now, why is it that the way they chose to live their marriages is found illegal
    What they did was wrong because they committed fraud when both married marines and claimed that they lived with those marines in order to fraudulently receive money.

    Fraud is fraud.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: California Marines Accused of Sham Marriages for Money

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    What they did was wrong because they committed fraud when both married marines and claimed that they lived with those marines in order to fraudulently receive money.

    Fraud is fraud.
    i realize they have (stupidly) fallen on their swords (a marine thing maybe) and confessed that they manipulated the system. so, they have given up their defense (again, stupidly ... insert playful marine reference here)

    but let's instead assume that the two couples shared a home, as two married couples ... only they did not sleep with their spouses
    since they have a marriage license, said their vows and fufilled the requirements of a marriage contract under the law, what would make their marriages unlawful?
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: California Marines Accused of Sham Marriages for Money

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    but i still don't see it
    not trying to be obtuse (... it's a gift, i don't have to try)
    i do recognize these marines have already confessed, so they are toast
    but LOTS of people are in loveless marriages
    lots of people who are married have relations with others outside of their marriage - often with spousal acknowledgment
    marriage is a contract. two people comply with that contract and say their vows and get a marriage license
    what more is required
    or if it is easier to respond to, what about a marriage (short of the couple agreeing it is a sham) then constitutes a sham
    Does me telling you "it goes to intent" help any? Every single thing you've described does not equal "we're getting married so we can have the marriage monies."

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    Re: California Marines Accused of Sham Marriages for Money

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Does me telling you "it goes to intent" help any? Every single thing you've described does not equal "we're getting married so we can have the marriage monies."
    I agree intent is the key, but it's VERY hard to prove if someone is marrying PURELY to gain financial benefits from the military/government. If they don't admit it, they just make up stories.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: California Marines Accused of Sham Marriages for Money

    Wait...how is this a a story? Military personnel have been entering 'contract marriages' as early in their career as tech school to get BAQ and separate rations pay since the 70's. (and probably beyond that even)

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