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Thread: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Where do you get this “33%” number from?
    That's the current proportion of our federal expenditures that are not funded by taxes, and would therefore need to be halted immediately once we hit the debt ceiling.

    EDIT: Oops, actually it's 43%, making it even MORE unfeasible to actually pare down our spending in the next four weeks and stay beneath the current debt ceiling.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Un...federal_budget
    http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/...rt_2011_US_fed
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-04-11 at 05:42 PM.
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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    You can't even stay beneath the current debt ceiling level. I don't think it'd be possible since we already hit it months ago, and the only way it is making it right now is by transferring accounts and other quick fixes.

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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    I honestly don't care what arguement is presented. The President does NOT have the authority to raise the debt ceiling. Only Congress has that authority. The 14th Amendment was never meant to be applied thusly.
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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I honestly don't care what arguement is presented. The President does NOT have the authority to raise the debt ceiling. Only Congress has that authority. The 14th Amendment was never meant to be applied thusly.
    The president ALSO doesn't have the authority to stop funding programs and agencies which the law mandates that he fund. So he doesn't have any choice but to violate one law or the other. By not raising the debt ceiling, Congress will essentially FORCE him to prioritize which of their laws should be enforced and which should not.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-05-11 at 11:13 PM.
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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The president ALSO doesn't have the authority to stop funding programs and agencies which the law mandates that he fund. So he doesn't have any choice but to violate one law or the other. By not raising the debt ceiling, Congress will essentially FORCE him to prioritize which of their laws should be enforced and which should not.
    The President doesn't fund anything. Congress does. If the President doesn't get the funds from Congress then they are the ones that are at fault, not the President.
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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    The President doesn't fund anything. Congress does.
    Incorrect. Congress allocates the money (which they already did, last April). The Treasury Department, which answers to the president, actually collects and doles out money to the various programs and agencies.

    If the President doesn't get the funds from Congress then they are the ones that are at fault, not the President.
    The funds come from the Treasury; no money ever passes through Congress' hands except for their personal salaries.
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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Incorrect. Congress allocates the money (which they already did, last April). The Treasury Department, which answers to the president, actually collects and doles out money to the various programs and agencies.
    Sorry I wasn't specific enough for you. It is Congress that authorizes borrowing and sets the taxes which the IRS and Treasury Department collects and doles out under the guidence of the President. If Congress does not do this then, again, it is Congress that is at fault. Not the President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The funds come from the Treasury; no money ever passes through Congress' hands except for their personal salaries.
    The authority to collect/get the funds comes from Congress.
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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Not paying our bills is what is an affront to the 14th Amendment. Being deadbeats is unconstitutional.
    this is incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by 14th Amendment
    Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

    there is your purpose of the 14th Amendment. Debt instruments. Not "the bills". The Supreme Court already handled this issue in 1935 (when we defaulted under FDR), and specifically stated that debt came from Congressional Authorization. The Government is not constitutionally mandated to pay for park services, UN Dues, military spending, or the entitlements - these are simply bills that are "binding on the conscience of the sovereign" Congress has allotted enough spending and borrowing to cover the debt; and Constitutionally that is first priority. In the meantime, in the showdown between the House and the President, our system will work as it is supposed to - and force some measure of compromise/deal making. That's sort of the point of the "power of the purse" in the separation of powers. The Government will just have to cut other things in the meantime, if we get to that point. Instant Balanced Budget.



    This whole thing is a ridiculous trial balloon by an increasingly frustrated and desperate administration. It will fare no better than when they floated the idea that Nancy Pelosi could just "deem" Obamacare to have passed.
    Last edited by cpwill; 07-06-11 at 12:22 AM.

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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    So you think the government can just cut things in the next month and the debt ceiling issue will be fine?

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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    nope, i think it will continue to be a huge mounting problem.



    it just won't be the end of the world, as some are painting. we have cut larger percentages of public spending before (post-WWII, for example) and seem to have survived.

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