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Thread: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

  1. #41
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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    With Democrat Senators, the Treasury Secretary and the White House mulling over yet another unprecedented executive branch end run around the legislative branch and contortion of the law, I have to believe Glenn Beck does less manipulation of the truth than Obama and his cronies do.

    This shouldn’t even be a partisan issue. This is an absolute affront to the Constitution and the 14th Amendment.
    Not paying our bills is what is an affront to the 14th Amendment. Being deadbeats is unconstitutional.
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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    It’s even simpler than you think Kandahar. The President does not have the authority to spend money that hasn’t been directly allocated by congress so he will have no choice but to start shutting down the federal government, while still paying our debts.
    Except the money WAS allocated by Congress when they passed the 2011 federal budget.

    No president in history has ever contemplated such a usurpation of legislative power and it will be a fast track case straight to the SCOTUS followed by impeachment if he tries it.

    It's not (entirely) the president's fault that two contradictory laws exist on the books. If the debt ceiling isn't raised there is no way he can possibly AVOID violating the law, because the law also calls for a certain amount of spending for various programs. So talking about impeachment is ****ing stupid; if you put someone in a situation where they MUST violate the law no matter what they do, then you can hardly hold them responsible when they do exactly that.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-04-11 at 05:39 AM.
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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Except the money WAS allocated by Congress when they passed the 2011 federal budget.




    It's not (entirely) the president's fault that two contradictory laws exist on the books. If the debt ceiling isn't raised there is no way he can possibly AVOID violating the law, because the law also calls for a certain amount of spending for various programs.
    What contradictory laws are you talking about?
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  4. #44
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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    And that's exactly what he'd be doing if he chose to fulfill all the financial obligations which have been authorized by Congress.
    So he could, raise taxes or confiscate property as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Even if there were some well-established legal principle that called for him to do that (which there isn't as far as I can tell), it would be impossible. Because "dividing the funds proportionally" is inherently subjective. Are you suggesting he withhold an equal amount of funding from every line item of the budget in order to fully obey the debt ceiling law? Or are you suggesting he violate the debt ceiling law and the budget law by splitting the difference between them?
    The president cannot impound spending, title X of the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974 prevents such an act.
    The only option he has is to divide the funds in mathematical proportion.
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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Except the money WAS allocated by Congress when they passed the 2011 federal budget.




    It's not (entirely) the president's fault that two contradictory laws exist on the books. If the debt ceiling isn't raised there is no way he can possibly AVOID violating the law, because the law also calls for a certain amount of spending for various programs.
    It doesn’t matter if money was allocated. Federal programs are not debt and are not required to be paid by the 14th Amendment.

    There aren’t contradictory laws on the books. There are politicians who are refusing to do their stinking jobs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  6. #46
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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Except the money WAS allocated by Congress when they passed the 2011 federal budget.




    It's not (entirely) the president's fault that two contradictory laws exist on the books. If the debt ceiling isn't raised there is no way he can possibly AVOID violating the law, because the law also calls for a certain amount of spending for various programs.
    Actually the budget is prepared by the president and approved by congress, he shares an equal blame for passing spending that couldn't be paid for.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    What contradictory laws are you talking about?
    Congress has authorized $X in spending and $Y in taxes, then prohibited any borrowing to finance the difference. There is no particular reason why one of these laws (the debt ceiling) should take precedence over the other (the federal budget).
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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Actually the budget is prepared by the president and approved by congress, he shares an equal blame for passing spending that couldn't be paid for.
    I agree that it's fair to hold the president accountable for fiscal profligacy (if you're worried about that). But it's not fair to talk about impeachment when the laws on the books don't give him any way to AVOID violating the law.
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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Not paying our bills is what is an affront to the 14th Amendment. Being deadbeats is unconstitutional.
    This is basically true but pretty simplistic considering there is a difference between debt and spending.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  10. #50
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    Re: Obama Bypassing Congress on Debt Limit is 'Crazy Talk'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I agree that it's fair to hold the president accountable for fiscal profligacy (if you're worried about that). But it's not fair to talk about impeachment when the laws on the books don't give him any way to AVOID violating the law.
    I think impeachment is perfectly valid for any president who can't seem to align the budget with incoming revenue.

    Could of saved us from the last few decades of ****ty presidents.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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