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Thread: Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges

  1. #11
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    Re: Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Illicit drug use during pregnancy | Pregnancy | March of Dimes

    I don't believe that making an irrational decision is "mentally ill", sometimes people just do stupid ****.

    There is also nothing but this rather biased stories commentary on her case, the police say she did, she says she didn't. Or are you implying that the police are just making **** up?
    Would not be the first time. Election year, dead baby and possible irresponsible mother = vote winner in some circles.

    Finally, your false belief being Pregnant is somehow looked up negatively in America. THATS UTTER BULL****. Being IRRESPONSIBLE and Pregnant, is looked upon negatively.
    The prosecutors are using laws that was intended to punish men who beat the crap out of women so they loose their babies... the men are not being charged but the women are!

    And what is irresponsible behaviour? Smoking? Drinking a bit of wine? Jaywalking?

    Like it or not, women are being charged with murder where the cause of death is near impossible to quantify. On top of loosing a child they now risk going to jail for life because of a ****ed up legal system that allows prosecutors to use religious and political agendas to punish "sinners"... ... what a ****ed up country.

    Women loose babies all the time and in most cases it has nothing to do with the actions of the mother..... my mother lost her first child to a miss-carriage... should she be charged because she worked in a hair-dresser and maybe the chemicals there might have caused her to abort?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I have every fear that CC and Jet do of abuse of this system, but three examples we're given are a cocaine addict, an idiot that decided to eat some Rat Poison, and a meth head.

    Not really the sort to generate much in the way of sympathy.

    Their children however, I mourn for.
    Here's another slippery slope scenario. Woman is arrested for cocaine possession. At the time of her arrest, she admits to being pregnant. If she is then, also charged with endangering the welfare of a child, the law has no identified the fetus as having rights. This might be used to invalidate Roe v. Wade. Now, on the one hand, this woman in this scenario is certainly doing something dangerous to the fetus. On the other, what she is doing is very different than legal/voluntary abortion.

    This is not an issue I would want to touch, legally. It is so wrangled in so many different facets and perceptions that the complications could go on forever.
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    Re: Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    It doesn't matter. The investigation concluded it was not caused by cocaine use.
    Sorry I speed read.

    If that's the case. Then she should not be charged with anything IMHO.

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    Re: Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges | World news | The Guardian



    Seriously what is wrong with parts of America these days? Throwing women in jail for live for having still births or premature births? Not even the freaking Taliban and Iranian mullahs do this!
    I question the accuracy of your claim that Iran and/or the Taliban wouldn’t lock a woman up for this. Abortion is illegal in Iran, except when the mother’s life is in danger, and drug use is illegal too.

    If nothing else, the drug use alone in Iran could get her anything from the death penalty to 70 lashes.

    I think the punishment is too extreme in the cited case but I have a hard time feeling sorry for a woman who is addicted to drugs and doesn’t go get an abortion when she finds out she is pregnant.

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    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges

    The slippery slope has already happened. There is no evidence one of the women did anything to endanger the fetus at all. She is being charged with it anyway out of the clear blue sky.

    I don't find this complicated at all. A fetus does not have the same rights as a person. No logical argument supports that conclusion. But even if that weren't the case, even if you for some reason think a fetus has more rights than a woman, they're already charging women who did nothing wrong.

    And in this case, a woman who was willing to have a child with Downs, despite her doctors suggesting she abort. She's your poster-child. And now you want to send her to jail? For having the audacity to miscarry?
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 07-03-11 at 07:10 AM.

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    Re: Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges | World news | The Guardian



    Seriously what is wrong with parts of America these days? Throwing women in jail for live for having still births or premature births? Not even the freaking Taliban and Iranian mullahs do this!
    There is little doubt in my mind that many "pro-lifers" are tottally ignorant or rampant misogynists or both
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    Re: Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges

    Hummmmm, I'm surprised at some of the positions being taken here. I disagree with Mistress Nomad, but, at least, she's consistent. Even if the lady had done dangerous things that harmed her unborn child, what makes this child a baby worth legal "victim" status but not any of the other countless aborted babies? Can someone explain?
    Last edited by X Factor; 07-03-11 at 07:16 AM.
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    Re: Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    This is very tricky. If the baby is born live, but then dies, and the cause of death is directly related to the actions of the mother during pregnancy, I suppose some sort of charges would be appropriate. But this opens up a huge can of worms. Let's say they find a direct link between ADD and women who smoke cigarettes during pregnancy. Any child with ADD could now sue their parents for some sort of abuse/neglect/endangerment. Though I agree that in some cases, charging the women in these cases is appropriate, I don't like where this could head.
    Why stop there Cap'n? Why not charge women eating at Mc Donalds with endangerment? How about women who are not following an ideal diet or exercise regime?

    After all we know that lack of vitamin B causes neural tube deficits
    Greenhouse gases: Any gas that, by an accident of chemistry, happens to absorb radiation of a type that the Earth, by an accident of history, would like to lose.
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    Re: Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    The slippery slope has already happened. There is no evidence one of the women did anything to endanger the fetus at all. She is being charged with it anyway out of the clear blue sky.

    I don't find this complicated at all. A fetus does not have the same rights as a person. No logical argument supports that conclusion. But even if that weren't the case, even if you for some reason think a fetus has more rights than a woman, they're already charging women who did nothing wrong.

    And in this case, a woman who was willing to have a child with Downs, despite her doctors suggesting she abort. She's your poster-child. And now you want to send her to jail? For having the audacity to miscarry?
    Did we read the same article? The woman was a crack-head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges | World news | The Guardian



    Seriously what is wrong with parts of America these days? Throwing women in jail for live for having still births or premature births? Not even the freaking Taliban and Iranian mullahs do this!
    Pete....Dateline within the past 48 hours. Your story is from Friday 24 June 2011. That's a tad more than 48 hours.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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