Page 9 of 17 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 161

Thread: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

  1. #81
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Bla h blah blah let the killer go cause oh some murdering rapist Mexican didn't get told he could call the Mexican Consulate after being arrested.

    NEVER MIND the devastated family, the dead girl or the fact said killer entered another country without tally or clue of his rights and decided to commit murder...

    I say you enter another country, commit murder and have no clue what your "rights" are, you get what's coming to you.
    That's pretty much the opposite of how we do it here. All people are informed of their rights, it's the correct way to do it. You can't arrest people, violate their rights and claim later "Oh well, you should have known better". It probably should be investigated to make sure the rules were followed. We have them for reasons you know. I'm not sure what difference it would have made in this case, but emotional arguments like yours are not the best to go off of when trying to decide if the government acted properly and within the rules prescribed to it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #82
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,618

    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    yes, i do
    that criminal is going to be incarcerated/killed in my name as an American citizen
    and i really need to know that the due processes of law were followed to assure he - or anyone else - received a fair trial
    our nation agreed to an international treaty asserting that aliens would be entitled to counsel from their home nation
    there is no good reason why such counsel should be denied to those indicted aliens
    just as there is no good reason why Americans arrested abroad should not be accorded access to American counsel
    but this action by tejas could, by its precedent, undermine that American right to American representation abroad
    Horse****. If it wasnt for the death penalty attachment this wouldnt be a story and you wouldnt know his name. If/when they commute his sentence to life no one is going to care or give him a second thought.

    BTW...how does mejico treat their illegals? Do they follow treaties? Ever read anything on their southern border and how others are treated there? Do they get to meet their consulate?

    Dood came to America, lived as a citizen, raped and killed a 16 year old. No indication he wasnt mirandized or given the same rights as any US citizen.

  3. #83
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Well...yes actually. Bravo-right off the top...not a question but welll done. My guess is that if you can honestly state that you are one of the few. Now. Since you have read all those things and there are opinions (emphasis on 'opinions' because hey...here we are with Texas still proceeding, so obviously their 'opinion differs') on the subject of treaties relative to the Geneva Convention, then 1-did you read them because of this thread, and 2-do youside with 'opinions' based solely on your pre-existing beliefs? Oh...Im sure there are other questions (since from what I have read there appears to be significant differing opinions from people that are actually legal scholars) but we can start there. Again..Kudos for actually reading the article.
    Actually, it is the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, a document I am very familiar with and have been for years. I also read the ICJ opinion when it initially came out years ago. The SCOTUS case I read more recently -- I think last year, but I don't remember it. My "pre-existing" beliefs are that the US should abide by the rule of law and its treaty commitments. The U.S. is a signatory to the Convention and thus is obligated as a matter of international law to abide by it. The benefits the U.S. gains from the treaty is significant and it does allow the U.S. to gain access to and advocate for its citizens being treated unfairly in other countries around the world. It also provides the modern framework in which international diplomacy is conducted.
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  4. #84
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    To my earlier point.

    YOU have the expertise and legal backing to declare the SCOTUS was wrong. You SURE there isnt at least a LITTLE bit of bias there?
    Did you read Article VI of the Constitution? It is VERY clear as to its meaning and intent.
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  5. #85
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    The U.S. is under no obligation to honor any treaty involving countries that routinely ignore said treaties.

    If the guy were Dutch or English or someone from a country deserving of such considerations, I would say yeah, why not let them see their consulate Go Fers?

    That is not the case with Mexico or a hundred or so other countries. They do not rate considerations like these, especially re their illegal alien criminals.
    Do you have any evidence that Mexico denies U.S. Citizens consular acces or are you blowing smoke?
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  6. #86
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Do you have any evidence that Mexico denies U.S. Citizens consular acces or are you blowing smoke?
    I thought most every country abides by the Vienna Convention of 1969. I know of no specific case where an American was not provided consulate contact in Mexico. It's probably happened at one time or another in history... but Oberon seems to insinuate this happens all the time. That's confusing...
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  7. #87
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,129

    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Horse****. If it wasnt for the death penalty attachment this wouldnt be a story and you wouldnt know his name. If/when they commute his sentence to life no one is going to care or give him a second thought.
    that they seek a commutation of sentence is not a request which has to be abided
    that we failed to provide him with the same rights we would want accorded an American citizen in mexico (or elsewhere) is something we should recognize

    BTW...how does mejico treat their illegals? Do they follow treaties? Ever read anything on their southern border and how others are treated there? Do they get to meet their consulate?
    but for the intervention of the American consulate - which representation and actions were excellent - my friend would still be down there wasting away in some dreary mexican prison
    that is why i find this matter of such importance. i can envision mexican authorities denying American consulate intervention in matters affecting American citizens in their jails because we have ended the practice of comity

    Dood came to America, lived as a citizen, raped and killed a 16 year old. No indication he wasnt mirandized or given the same rights as any US citizen.
    and he should be properly tried under American law ... which provides for his access to mexican counsel. process which was denied to him
    i don't care who the criminal was or what their crime consisted of, they deserve due process. because that guarantee then extends to each of us. just as depriving him of due process with our sanction might later result in the deprivation of our due process rights when we need them
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  8. #88
    Sage
    jamesrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    A place where common sense exists
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 09:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    31,067

    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The United States signed and ratified the treaty. Thus, the United States, under international law, is required to abide by the provisions of that. This tenant of international law PRECEDES by centuries the existance of the United Nations. As for the 'self-execution' doctrine, it doesn't change the fact that the U.S. is bound to abide by the terms of the treaty and thus, the US is CLEARLY in violation of its treaty obligations. Also, this 'self-execution' doctrine is idiotic. The Constitution is VERY CLEAR on the supremacy of treaties signed by the President and ratified by the Senate. A nonsensical decision by SCOTUS.
    Apparently the SC thinks differently than you do. And Apparently those in DC do not see this as big enough issue to make a law implementing the treaty so that the states would have to allow consular visits for scumbags who break the law. SO if you want to blame anyone for Texas executing scumbag illegals who rape and murder then you should blame congress for not implementing this treaty or the assholes who drafted this treaty for not making it self executing.If you want Texas to allow consular visits to illegal alien scumbags then petition your elected officials.

    The illegal alien scumbag on death row will be executed just like the illegal alien scumbag who was executed on 08.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  9. #89
    Sage
    jamesrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    A place where common sense exists
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 09:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    31,067

    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Horse****. If it wasnt for the death penalty attachment this wouldnt be a story and you wouldnt know his name.
    I agree that the only reason this is even an issue is because it involves the death penalty, just like the one almost 3 years ago did.

    If/when they commute his sentence to life no one is going to care or give him a second thought.
    Texas didn't commute the last illegal alien convicted of murder, they won't for this one either.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  10. #90
    Debate MMA
    Prof. Peabody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Last Seen
    07-30-12 @ 11:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,361

    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Was he informed of his right? U.S. citizens are required to be informed of their rights via the Miranda Warning. This treaty provides such rights for foreign nationals. Nice try though...
    Answering questions with more questions? Please show me the requirement in the Vienna Convention that he be informed? I read the Vienna Convention and didn't see any requirement to inform, only to comply when asked. Maybe I missed it so please quote it with a link.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

Page 9 of 17 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •