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Thread: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Texas loves tossing innocent people in prison; we have 'privatized' a lot of the system and they operate according to cherished libertarian and conservative principles: the state should guarantee them a profit and plenty of prisoners.

    I'm opposed to the death penalty for many of the same reasons I oppose abortions; the state shouldn't have the power to kill it's citizens nor should it have the power to allow others to kill citizens. It is in fact cheaper to give them life sentences with no parole, if no other reason suffices, and this in turn increases the chances of correcting all too common mistakes and railroad jobs by the Court system. Chuck Colson's arguments as well as the conservative view of limiting state power.

    Having said that, we shouldn't care much over the what the UN thinks; it's 'Human Rights Chairman' recently was Omar Khaddafi, after all, and Mexico is a corrupt country that doesn't give a **** about its citizens or their 'rights' in the first place, and should also be ignored just as they routinely ignore American rights; kidnapping Americans and shaking them down is a regular industry there.
    Last edited by Oberon; 07-05-11 at 04:49 AM.

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Texas loves tossing innocent people in prison; we have 'privatized' a lot of the system and they operate according to cherished libertarian and conservative principles: the state should guarantee them a profit and plenty of prisoners.

    I'm opposed to the death penalty for many of the same reasons I oppose abortions; the state shouldn't have the power to kill it's citizens nor should it have the power to allow others to kill citizens. It is in fact cheaper to give them life sentences with no parole, if no other reason suffices, and this in turn increases the chances of correcting all too common mistakes and railroad jobs by the Court system. Chuck Colson's arguments as well as the conservative view of limiting state power.

    Having said that, we shouldn't care much over the what the UN thinks; it's 'Human Rights Chairman' recently was Omar Khaddafi, after all, and Mexico is a corrupt country that doesn't give a **** about its citizens or their 'rights' in the first place, and should also be ignored just as they routinely ignore American rights; kidnapping Americans and shaking them down is a regular industry there.
    Finally someone that thinks the same way I do about the UN .. I don't think it would bother Me one bit if the US was to pull out of it ..

    One question tho .. is it really cheaper to give a person a life sentence then the death penalty ?? from what I found it costs us an average of $1.5 million. per life sentence

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    I bet you guys, MrV and james, would be the first people bitching if Mexico pulled something like this on an American.

    Listen, no one is trying to set the guy free. This treaty does not set him free. It doesn't even prevent us from carrying out the sentence within the US. It's just due process of law which we agreed to and signed. And in civilized countries, that's what we do. It doesn't matter if the person we're affording due process to is scum. Two wrongs do not make a right. That's how barbarians act.
    - chuckles- okay ... then I guess it's okay for Me to slip on down to texas and stick that needle in him ??

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Just out of curiousity...beyond reading a few lines in a newspaper article (if people actually bothered to read the article) does anyone actually KNOW what the treaty entails, how it applies...or even IF it applies?

    Dood raped and killed a 16 year old. You REALLY need more than that?
    Yes, I have read the entire treaty, the SCOTUS opinion, the ICJ opinion on the matter, and the United States Constitution...

    Any more questions?
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Again there is no violation if the treaty is not self executing or if congress did not enact statutes to implement it. This case will happen the same way almost similar case in 08 did. If you want Texas to allow consular access of illegals and immigrants then complain to your congressmen and senators to enact statutes to implement it. Although that might be hard since blatantly being a globalist piece of **** is not really popular right now.
    The United States signed and ratified the treaty. Thus, the United States, under international law, is required to abide by the provisions of that. This tenant of international law PRECEDES by centuries the existance of the United Nations. As for the 'self-execution' doctrine, it doesn't change the fact that the U.S. is bound to abide by the terms of the treaty and thus, the US is CLEARLY in violation of its treaty obligations. Also, this 'self-execution' doctrine is idiotic. The Constitution is VERY CLEAR on the supremacy of treaties signed by the President and ratified by the Senate. A nonsensical decision by SCOTUS.
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Yes, I have read the entire treaty, the SCOTUS opinion, the ICJ opinion on the matter, and the United States Constitution...

    Any more questions?
    Well...yes actually. Bravo-right off the top...not a question but welll done. My guess is that if you can honestly state that you are one of the few. Now. Since you have read all those things and there are opinions (emphasis on 'opinions' because hey...here we are with Texas still proceeding, so obviously their 'opinion differs') on the subject of treaties relative to the Geneva Convention, then 1-did you read them because of this thread, and 2-do youside with 'opinions' based solely on your pre-existing beliefs? Oh...Im sure there are other questions (since from what I have read there appears to be significant differing opinions from people that are actually legal scholars) but we can start there. Again..Kudos for actually reading the article.

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The United States signed and ratified the treaty. Thus, the United States, under international law, is required to abide by the provisions of that. This tenant of international law PRECEDES by centuries the existance of the United Nations. As for the 'self-execution' doctrine, it doesn't change the fact that the U.S. is bound to abide by the terms of the treaty and thus, the US is CLEARLY in violation of its treaty obligations. Also, this 'self-execution' doctrine is idiotic. The Constitution is VERY CLEAR on the supremacy of treaties signed by the President and ratified by the Senate. A nonsensical decision by SCOTUS.
    To my earlier point.

    YOU have the expertise and legal backing to declare the SCOTUS was wrong. You SURE there isnt at least a LITTLE bit of bias there?

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Letting him see the consulate will potentially get an innocent American out of a bad situation in another country. It's kind of hard to call upon the enforcing of an international treaty when you don't follow said treaty.
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Just out of curiousity...beyond reading a few lines in a newspaper article (if people actually bothered to read the article) does anyone actually KNOW what the treaty entails, how it applies...or even IF it applies?

    Dood raped and killed a 16 year old. You REALLY need more than that?
    yes, i do
    that criminal is going to be incarcerated/killed in my name as an American citizen
    and i really need to know that the due processes of law were followed to assure he - or anyone else - received a fair trial
    our nation agreed to an international treaty asserting that aliens would be entitled to counsel from their home nation
    there is no good reason why such counsel should be denied to those indicted aliens
    just as there is no good reason why Americans arrested abroad should not be accorded access to American counsel
    but this action by tejas could, by its precedent, undermine that American right to American representation abroad
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    The U.S. is under no obligation to honor any treaty involving countries that routinely ignore said treaties.

    If the guy were Dutch or English or someone from a country deserving of such considerations, I would say yeah, why not let them see their consulate Go Fers?

    That is not the case with Mexico or a hundred or so other countries. They do not rate considerations like these, especially re their illegal alien criminals.

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