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Thread: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

  1. #61
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The people you should blame for this is the clowns in congress who did not create legislation to implement it. Since congress did not enact statutes to implement and nor was the treaty self executing it we are not in violation of it. Pakistan may have enacted laws to implement the treaty in their country, we do not know.
    Yes, the U.S. IS in violation of it. The U.S. signed it, ratified it, and insists on other states to abide by it. Yes, the U.S. is in violation of the treaty and of international law. This is clear to anyone with even an inkling of understand of international law. Also, read article six of the Constitution. That is also crystal clear regardless of that inexplicable decision of the SCOTUS.


    The only Americans overseas that are at risk are those retarded enough to visit countries that are dictatorships. And regardless of treaties are not going to give two ****s about some treaty.[/QUOTE]
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    It will fail miserably as a delaying tactic because of Medellín v. Texas.

    The idea anyone should apologize to Mexico is laughable. The only one owed an apology is the victim's loved ones. The only one w ho owes the victim's loved ones an appology is the murderer for doing the deed and the US government for not doing its damn job to secure the border and crack down on illegals which resulted in this scumbag being able to be in the country in the first place. The only safeguard that should be in place is the government actually doing its damn job to secure the border and get rid of illegals.
    Your response highlights the problem I have with many conservatives when it comes to issues of justice and due process. The idea that because someone is concerned about a possible violation of due process doesn't mean they're soft on criminals or want to see the man set free (or even see his sentence commuted, if he's truly guilty of the crimes he was convicted of, I have no problem seeing him executed).

    The concern is that the proper process was not respected. And that is troubling, because process is in place as a safeguard to help protect the innocent from wrongful prosecution. Plus, as others have pointed out, with this being a international matter, ignoring the treaty invites a similar response from other nations.

    Now I don't know the specifics of the case you are citing, but it seems to be a poor ruling that allows a loophole for the states to ignore the federal government's constitutional authority to negotiate and sign treaties. I'll take a more in depth look at the ruling and how it may or may not apply here later, but I had to post this.

    Being concerned about the due process of law, does not mean that we want to see murders and scumbags go free. It means want to make sure the government (the same government conservatives distrust in so many other areas) is respecting the rules and limitations that have been put in place to protect and preserve our rights.
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    So of all the murders that Mexican citizens will commit within mexicos borders today, whether it be petty criminals in mexico city, right up to gang runners in the north, does Mexico seriously have nothing better to do, then worry about this one guy?

    I mean, it's up to a countries government to protect their citizens sure, but if the guys guilty of rape and murder... With all of mexicos problems, the government should really back down on this one.
    Gotta disagree. While Mexico has plenty of issues to deal with, any nation should be concerned with protecting the rights of its citizens while abroad that were granted by international treaties. The fact that the guy is a murdering rapist is irrelevant. No one here is trying to portray him as sympathetic or a victim. Yes, he deserves to be punished for his crimes, but that does not excuse America from its obligations to abide by the treaties it has signed.
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Just out of curiousity...beyond reading a few lines in a newspaper article (if people actually bothered to read the article) does anyone actually KNOW what the treaty entails, how it applies...or even IF it applies?

    Dood raped and killed a 16 year old. You REALLY need more than that?

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    That's not necessarily true. Look, I totally agree that the Mexican Consulate should have been contacted, but this guy is a rapist and murderer. If he is executed, I won't lose any sleep over it. I only believe that we should do it right next time, for the sake of American citizens overseas. As for smelling bad, you got me dead to rights on that one. LOL.

    Excuse me for a minute, while I go get a banana.
    Bingo! I have no real problem with the idea of this guy being executed. Murdering rapists are pretty much the textbook definition of people who deserve the death penalty. The issue here is was it done properly and if not, how could it endanger Americans citizens when they are overseas? And I think those are very valid points. But so many so called conservatives (how claim to distrust "big government" on so many issues, but seem to have an unfailing faith in our legal system to be 100% correct all the time) just scream "murdering rapist" to cloud the issue and appeal to emotion.

    Like Dana said, if Texas wants to execute this guy, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. But they should do it by the book so we don't put our citizens at risk when they are on foreign soil.
    Last edited by Psychoclown; 07-05-11 at 03:33 AM.
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  6. #66
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Bingo! I have no real problem with the idea of this guy being executed. Murdering rapists are pretty much the textbook definition of people who deserve the death penalty.
    Deserve, huh? So the justice system is not about protecting the public... it's about providing personal vengeance? The death penalty is wrong because it demonstrates that it is ok to kill helpless harmless people for revenge, and that encourages murder. It's state terrorism, and like other terrorism it is counter-productive to society.

  7. #67
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Yes, the U.S. IS in violation of it. The U.S. signed it, ratified it, and insists on other states to abide by it. Yes, the U.S. is in violation of the treaty and of international law. This is clear to anyone with even an inkling of understand of international law. Also, read article six of the Constitution.
    Again there is no violation if the treaty is not self executing or if congress did not enact statutes to implement it. This case will happen the same way almost similar case in 08 did. If you want Texas to allow consular access of illegals and immigrants then complain to your congressmen and senators to enact statutes to implement it. Although that might be hard since blatantly being a globalist piece of **** is not really popular right now.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    I bet you guys, MrV and james, would be the first people bitching if Mexico pulled something like this on an American.

    Listen, no one is trying to set the guy free. This treaty does not set him free. It doesn't even prevent us from carrying out the sentence within the US. It's just due process of law which we agreed to and signed. And in civilized countries, that's what we do. It doesn't matter if the person we're affording due process to is scum. Two wrongs do not make a right. That's how barbarians act.

  9. #69
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    I bet you guys, MrV and james, would be the first people bitching if Mexico pulled something like this on an American.

    Listen, no one is trying to set the guy free. This treaty does not set him free. It doesn't even prevent us from carrying out the sentence within the US.

    snip..

    And in civilized countries, that's what we do. It doesn't matter if the person we're affording due process to is scum. Two wrongs do not make a right. That's how barbarians act.
    So you are saying the scumbag did not get a free lawyer and a fair trial? He got the same due process any other criminal got.

    It's just due process of law which we agreed to and signed.
    It doesn't what was signed if the treaty if there are no statutes enacted to implement it or it if is not self executing.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    ...What on earth are you even talking about?

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