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Thread: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You know, SCOTUS doesn't speak ex cathedra. They make mistakes. They have in the past and they still do. As citizens, we have the right and responsiblity to question the decisions and opinions of the SCOTUS.
    It seems rather straightforward... only Congress has the power to make law, and we have established procedures for how that is to occur. The Executive branch can sign all the treaties it wants, but it cannot bypass Congress. If the treaty is as important as people believe, they should convince their legislators to make it law.

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    It seems rather straightforward... only Congress has the power to make law, and we have established procedures for how that is to occur. The Executive branch can sign all the treaties it wants, but it cannot bypass Congress. If the treaty is as important as people believe, they should convince their legislators to make it law.
    Very good.
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    It seems rather straightforward... only Congress has the power to make law, and we have established procedures for how that is to occur. The Executive branch can sign all the treaties it wants, but it cannot bypass Congress. If the treaty is as important as people believe, they should convince their legislators to make it law.
    ...

    Article 2, Section 2, Clause 2 of the US Constitution:
    [The President] shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur....

    Treaty Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/...enate_role.pdf
    American law is that international accords become part of the body of U.S. federal law. As a result, Congress can modify or repeal treaties by subsequent legislative action, even if this amounts to a violation of the treaty under international law.

    Having a basic understanding of constitutional law may help.

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Thanks, now produce proof they didn't.
    Actually, they need to prove that they DID tell him his rights and I have seen no indication that they did...
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Of course you have the 'right'. Expertise isnt the same thing. The supreme courts decision is pretty logical...if the court cases are not compromised, there is no need to retry the cases. In virtually every case that was reviewed (all 51) several executions were carried out and most of the sentences were commuted to life sentence. No compromise. And now those individuals are buried in prison for the rest of their lives and those very concerned citizens dont give them a seconds thought.
    Once again, I am not defending the murderers and if Texas wishes to use the death penalty, I don't have a problem with it. However, I am concerned that the US upholds the same treaty obligations that the US expects other signatories to the treaty to uphold.
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    It seems rather straightforward... only Congress has the power to make law, and we have established procedures for how that is to occur. The Executive branch can sign all the treaties it wants, but it cannot bypass Congress. If the treaty is as important as people believe, they should convince their legislators to make it law.
    Did you read the Constitution? Article Six binds the States and all judges in those states to any and all treaties that are signed and ratified. You did know that the Senate does have a hand in the Treaty process, I presume.
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Once again, I am not defending the murderers and if Texas wishes to use the death penalty, I don't have a problem with it. However, I am concerned that the US upholds the same treaty obligations that the US expects other signatories to the treaty to uphold.
    This case has been out there for 16 years. In the other premier case that the Supreme Court ruled on. the individual was arrested, tried and convicted for raping and murdering both a 15 and a 16 year old. It wasnt until 10 years after the fact that there became this sudden concern about his citizenship. The simple reality is that the treaty was enacted to ensure citizens recieve 'rights.' The US Consulate in mejico has a position paper they issue to people....basically what it says is "hey junior...dont **** up in mejico." The dont provide counsel or legal advice and they dont in any way interfere in mejican law processes. It advises them of how stuff is 'supposed' to work but offers no guarantees that the mejican government will follow its own rules and laws, and forget about OUR rules and laws.

    In theses cases we are discussing the individuals recieved legal counsel, had trials and appeals. They recieve far better care in US jails than in mejican jails. The ultimate fact is they rapend and murdered someone. They recieved fair trials and were convicted and sentenced. The SCOTUS ruling is that consulate notification would have no impact on that process.

    How many people are still banging the drum for those people who'se death sentences have been commuted to life without parole? Like I said...out of sight...out of mind. Its an anti-death penalty argument...not a personal right or wrong argument.

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    This case has been out there for 16 years. In the other premier case that the Supreme Court ruled on. the individual was arrested, tried and convicted for raping and murdering both a 15 and a 16 year old. It wasnt until 10 years after the fact that there became this sudden concern about his citizenship. The simple reality is that the treaty was enacted to ensure citizens recieve 'rights.' The US Consulate in mejico has a position paper they issue to people....basically what it says is "hey junior...dont **** up in mejico." The dont provide counsel or legal advice and they dont in any way interfere in mejican law processes. It advises them of how stuff is 'supposed' to work but offers no guarantees that the mejican government will follow its own rules and laws, and forget about OUR rules and laws.

    In theses cases we are discussing the individuals recieved legal counsel, had trials and appeals. They recieve far better care in US jails than in mejican jails. The ultimate fact is they rapend and murdered someone. They recieved fair trials and were convicted and sentenced. The SCOTUS ruling is that consulate notification would have no impact on that process.

    How many people are still banging the drum for those people who'se death sentences have been commuted to life without parole? Like I said...out of sight...out of mind. Its an anti-death penalty argument...not a personal right or wrong argument.
    None of what you say changes the fact that the U.S. is in violation of a treaty that was signed by the President and ratified by the Senate.
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    None of what you say changes the fact that the U.S. is in violation of a treaty that was signed by the President and ratified by the Senate.
    None of what you say changes the fact that the supreme court has ruled that the states are not beholden to the treaty where there is no evidence or suggestion that the individual was denied due process.

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    None of what you say changes the fact that the supreme court has ruled that the states are not beholden to the treaty where there is no evidence or suggestion that the individual was denied due process.
    OK. So the Supreme Court is complicit in violating a treaty that the U.S. is a party to... The U.S. has violated its treaty commitment and international law, not to mention Article VI of the Constitution.
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