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Thread: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Did you read Article VI of the Constitution? It is VERY clear as to its meaning and intent.
    I dont pretend to be a constitutional scholar because I have read a few peoples opinions...certainly not because I have read the minority (or for that matter majority) court opinions that coincides what I want the legal definitions to be. My degree fields dont go near consitutional law. However we DO have appeals court and supreme court opinions on treaties...yes? Even 'opinions' that you disagree with. Im relatively certain they probably trump a blogged opinion.

    Again...I respect that you have read them. One has to assume that if Texas is indeed behaving in an unconstitutional manner the SCOTUS will in fact intercede. If they dont...well...

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    that they seek a commutation of sentence is not a request which has to be abided
    that we failed to provide him with the same rights we would want accorded an American citizen in mexico (or elsewhere) is something we should recognize


    but for the intervention of the American consulate - which representation and actions were excellent - my friend would still be down there wasting away in some dreary mexican prison
    that is why i find this matter of such importance. i can envision mexican authorities denying American consulate intervention in matters affecting American citizens in their jails because we have ended the practice of comity


    and he should be properly tried under American law ... which provides for his access to mexican counsel. process which was denied to him
    i don't care who the criminal was or what their crime consisted of, they deserve due process. because that guarantee then extends to each of us. just as depriving him of due process with our sanction might later result in the deprivation of our due process rights when we need them
    He was properly tried under US law. I dont see that as being in question. What is questioned is if he was allowed to talk to a mejican counsel, not if he recieved appropriate counsel. Your friend...was he guilty of raping and murdering a 16 year old mejican citizen? If so, he should still be there rotting. Did he recieve a fair trial? By all accounts THIS rapist/murderer in question DID.

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Do you have any evidence that Mexico denies U.S. Citizens consular acces or are you blowing smoke?
    For the sake of satisfying the challenge would that apply to Guatemalen and other central American citizens detained in mejico and denied rights? Im betting that would make for some dramatic reading...

    Apparently the supreme court has ruled 5/4 that the state is within its right to enact state law. Something about a cat named Jose Medina raping and murdering a couple folks and trying to avoid the same justice any US citizen would be subject to by virtue of his nationality.

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Intriguing. I read the synopsis on all 51 cases ordered reviewed due to concerns over failure to foreign consul. A couple of things jump out...like 1-WTF are people defending these scumbags for? 2-MOST of those sentences were commuted to life without the possibility of parole, sort of confirming my suspicions...all people really care about is their political ideals regarding the death penalty, and once that is waived those suckers are out of sight, out of mind, and good freakin riddance. 3-The SCOTUS has ruled on this...more than once...determining that if the individual recieved a fair trial and the conulsar notification didnt negatively impact their fair trial, then the states may proceed.

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Did the guy ask and was denied? I haven't read anywhere that he did. I looked over the Vienna Treaty and I couldn't find anywhere it saying a person must be informed, only they must do so if asked. I agree with you, they are simply attempting to get his sentence commuted. Which it should NOT. LWOP is not a real punishment as after a few years they become institutionalized and comfortable with their surroundings. Everything is provided FOR them and they have no worries where their next meal is coming from.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Did the guy ask and was denied? I haven't read anywhere that he did. I looked over the Vienna Treaty and I couldn't find anywhere it saying a person must be informed, only they must do so if asked. I agree with you, they are simply attempting to get his sentence commuted. Which it should NOT. LWOP is not a real punishment as after a few years they become institutionalized and comfortable with their surroundings. Everything is provided FOR them and they have no worries where their next meal is coming from.
    Meh...for reasons totally unrelated, Im fine with a life without parole sentence. Im not a fan of the death penalty. But that shouldnt be what this is about and frankly I find it repulsive when people couch their 'concern' for their fellow man in all these other bull**** 'reasons.'

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Obama Administration seeks to halt Texas execution of Mexican national, Humberto Leal Garcia

    BY Aliyah Shahid
    DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

    Saturday, July 2nd 2011, 11:43 AM

    The Obama Administration is taking the unusual step of trying to halt the execution of a Mexican citizen who has been sentenced to die for the brutal kidnapping, rape and murder of a 16-year-old girl more than 16 years ago.

    Obama Administration seeks to halt Texas execution of Mexican national, Humberto Leal Garcia
    They won't secure the border so guys like this won't simply walk across, now they seek to intervene in a trial where the man was duly convicted by a jury?
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Did the guy ask and was denied? I haven't read anywhere that he did. I looked over the Vienna Treaty and I couldn't find anywhere it saying a person must be informed, only they must do so if asked. I agree with you, they are simply attempting to get his sentence commuted. Which it should NOT. LWOP is not a real punishment as after a few years they become institutionalized and comfortable with their surroundings. Everything is provided FOR them and they have no worries where their next meal is coming from.
    That's a rather naive argument I think. You're saying if I threw you in jail with no hope for parole, that you'd be cool with that. After a couple years, you'd be comfortable and wouldn't want to be outside prison? Even if that were the case, so what? You're in prison and that means not on the streets where others could be subjected to your crime. You've been removed.
    Last edited by Ikari; 07-05-11 at 07:37 PM.
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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's a rather naive argument I think. You're saying if I threw you in jail with no hope for parole, that you'd be cool with that. After a couple years, you'd be comfortable and wouldn't want to be outside prison? Even if that were the case, so what? You're in prison and that means not on the streets where others could be subjected to your crime. You've been removed.
    Do a little reading on being institutionalized. Then come back and I'll discuss it with you.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: U.N. asks Texas to commute Mexican's death sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Do a little reading on being institutionalized. Then come back and I'll discuss it with you.
    I know about it, but it's still punishment. Jail is not a nice place, it's not fun to be there. Even if you've been there long enough to come to terms with your incarceration. It's still jail, you're still not free. I think it's foolish to state that it's not a punishment because people can become institutionalized. Particularly in some argument in which you use such unproven statements like "it's not a punishment" to excuse greater punishment such as the death penalty. More so in the light that the DP system has grave failure states, is expensive, and for the most part in today's society...pointless.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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