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Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds over

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/30/us-minnesota-budget-idUSTRE75T44F20110630

ST. PAUL, Minn. — In an echo of the debate unfolding in Washington, Minnesota hurtled toward a midnight government shutdown Thursday in a dispute over taxes and spending that could force thousands of layoffs, bring road projects to a standstill and close state parks just ahead of the Fourth of July weekend.

As the deadline drew ever closer without a resolution, people rushed to get driver’s and fishing licenses, and park officials began warning campers to pack their gear and leave.

:2wave:
 
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Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

I've always been of the belief, as long as the boat's rocking capsize the son of a gun and let's see who can swim.
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

Oh, that's alright. Our roads are in great shape. ;)
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

Why is it not widely understood that when you've got budget woes you cut any nonessential programs and services.

Next you reduce to the minimum that will preserve the service, Department, or offices.

You go to any and all Unions and tell them they have a choice. Everyone takes a pay cut possibly in the form of taking on more of the cost of benefits or both or we outsource all the jobs and fire all Union workers.

By dumping Unions and outsourcing jobs you automatically get more bang for the buck because the Company knows that production and effectiveness id a must or Company two gets a shot at the job.

Miracles can happen if you have a plan and stick to your convictions, making the case to the People forcefully.

Will this work? You bet it will.

What is more important? The whole population of a few hundred or thousand Union jobs and the thugs behind them?
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

GOP's "let's strangle the schools to death and borrow more money" vs. Dayton's "maybe a couple thousand of the richest people in the state could spare a few more pennies?"

This is what it really came down to. This was what the stalemate was over.

Absolutely sickening.

And Councilman, way to offer yet another short-term solution with serious long-term consequences due an inability to see any further into the future than next election season. Ideas like that are why we're ****ed in the first place. As a matter of fact, THAT idea in particular is one of the reasons we're ****ed.
 
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Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

I normally try not to take sides on these kinds of debates, but this time the Republicans were wrong. Taxing the richest Minnesotans just a little bit more would not have been devastating to Minnesota.
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

GOP's "let's strangle the schools to death and borrow more money" vs. Dayton's "maybe a couple thousand of the richest people in the state could spare a few more pennies?"

This is what it really came down to. This was what the stalemate was over.

Absolutely sickening.

And Councilman, way to offer yet another short-term solution with serious long-term consequences due an inability to see any further into the future than next election season. Ideas like that are why we're ****ed in the first place. As a matter of fact, THAT idea in particular is one of the reasons we're ****ed.

In the minds of the left isn't that always what it is about? Taking more from the productive to give to public sector union thugs?
I hope the Republicans will stick to their guns. No increase in taxes or in tax rates. It is time for the unproductive to figure out life on their own.
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

I normally try not to take sides on these kinds of debates, but this time the Republicans were wrong. Taxing the richest Minnesotans just a little bit more would not have been devastating to Minnesota.
Taxing the rich is such an easy answer to every problem. It requires no critical thought. And only one little knee jerk reaction.
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

Oh, that's alright. Our roads are in great shape. ;)

IF it really bothers you go down to Lowes or Home Depot, buy some asphalt patch, grab a shovel and a few orange cones and get to work.
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

GOP's "let's strangle the schools to death and borrow more money" vs. Dayton's "maybe a couple thousand of the richest people in the state could spare a few more pennies?"

This is what it really came down to. This was what the stalemate was over.

Absolutely sickening.

And Councilman, way to offer yet another short-term solution with serious long-term consequences due an inability to see any further into the future than next election season. Ideas like that are why we're ****ed in the first place. As a matter of fact, THAT idea in particular is one of the reasons we're ****ed.

I seriously doubt the richest handful of citizens in Minnesota could fix the budget gap, even if all of their income was taken in the form of taxes. And I can guarantee you, if you raise taxes on them they will leave. Then where do you go for the money?
 
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Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

Why is it not widely understood that when you've got budget woes you cut any nonessential programs and services.

Next you reduce to the minimum that will preserve the service, Department, or offices.

You go to any and all Unions and tell them they have a choice. Everyone takes a pay cut possibly in the form of taking on more of the cost of benefits or both or we outsource all the jobs and fire all Union workers.

By dumping Unions and outsourcing jobs you automatically get more bang for the buck because the Company knows that production and effectiveness id a must or Company two gets a shot at the job.

Miracles can happen if you have a plan and stick to your convictions, making the case to the People forcefully.

Will this work? You bet it will.

What is more important? The whole population of a few hundred or thousand Union jobs and the thugs behind them?

Yeah, just like "the plan" has worked for the past 11 years. Declining wages, anemic job growth and an infrastructure that is being allowed to rot around our ears. Hey, at least we can still spend trillions of dollars on unnecessary warfare, amiright?
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

I seriously doubt the richest handful of citizens in Minnesota could fix the budget gap, even if all of their income was taken in the form of taxes. And I can guarantee you, if you raise taxes on them they will leave. Then were do you go for the money?


You can't guarantee squat. It's a myth that the wealthy pack their stuff up and leave just because of a few percentage increases in tax rates.
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

You can't guarantee squat. It's a myth that the wealthy pack their stuff up and leave just because of a few percentage increases in tax rates.

A "few percentage increases" isn't enough to close the budget gap. If they're the goose laying the golden egg you'd have to tax them at a significantly higher rate. As California has clearly displayed, punishing the wealthy through higher taxes makes them leave. So yeah, I can guarantee it. If they are taxed too heavily they will leave.
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

In the minds of the left isn't that always what it is about? Taking more from the productive to give to public sector union thugs?
I hope the Republicans will stick to their guns. No increase in taxes or in tax rates. It is time for the unproductive to figure out life on their own.

Oh yes, of course. The fact that taxes on the top 1% are at a historic low that is so low that, everything included, they pay pretty much exactly the same amount in taxes as the poor. Even though they consume more resources, rely more heavily on the infrastruture, and just use a hell of a lot more in general. Yes, we're totally taxing the hell out of the rich. They're paying a whole .5% more than the people living below the federal poverty line. Boo hoo.

I love watching people cheer for more robbery of our schools, and the perpetuation of the exact same tactics that screwed us in the first place. That's what the Republicans are proposing. Steal more, "borrow" more (it's only borrowing if you intend to pay it back), on and on in perpetuity.
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

Oh yes, of course. The fact that taxes on the top 1% are at a historic low that is so low that, everything included, they pay pretty much exactly the same amount in taxes as the poor. Even though they consume more resources, rely more heavily on the infrastruture, and just use a hell of a lot more in general. Yes, we're totally taxing the hell out of the rich. They're paying a whole .5% more than the people living below the federal poverty line. Boo hoo.

I love watching people cheer for more robbery of our schools, and the perpetuation of the exact same tactics that screwed us in the first place. That's what the Republicans are proposing. Steal more, "borrow" more (it's only borrowing if you intend to pay it back), on and on in perpetuity.

If you're under or at the poverty line (and even a bit above it) you pay no federal taxes, so that's pretty inaccurate...Can't speak to state income tax.
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

IF it really bothers you go down to Lowes or Home Depot, buy some asphalt patch, grab a shovel and a few orange cones and get to work.

I am pretty sure that is a good way to get arrested.
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

I seriously doubt the richest handful of citizens in Minnesota could fix the budget gap, even if all of their income was taken in the form of taxes. And I can guarantee you, if you raise taxes on them they will leave. Then where do you go for the money?

I'm not proposing they would. There was, of course, more to the budget plan than that. But that was the sticking point. That was the reason for the stalemate - that particular part of it.

Ah, so we should continue to pile more and more of the tax burden on the poor out of fear the rich will pull... what? The campaign dollars from the politicians who are perpetuating this cycle? Go for it. On our current trajectory, we won't be taxing the rich at all in a few years anyway.
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

If you're under or at the poverty line (and even a bit above it) you pay no federal taxes, so that's pretty inaccurate...Can't speak to state income tax.

It isn't when you include everything - state, federal, etc. On average, the rich pay almost exactly the same as the poor. It may vary a bit state to state, but the fact that they're even in the same league is incredible.
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

I normally try not to take sides on these kinds of debates, but this time the Republicans were wrong. Taxing the richest Minnesotans just a little bit more would not have been devastating to Minnesota.

Unless they decide to leave the state. Also the schools budget is over 40% of the states budget.
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

I'm not proposing they would. There was, of course, more to the budget plan than that. But that was the sticking point. That was the reason for the stalemate - that particular part of it.

Ah, so we should continue to pile more and more of the tax burden on the poor out of fear the rich will pull... what? The campaign dollars from the politicians who are perpetuating this cycle? Go for it. On our current trajectory, we won't be taxing the rich at all in a few years anyway.

This tax burden on the poor crap is just that, crap. Having been poor (in a state with state and city income tax) I can tell you first hand, there is no tax obligation for somebody near the poverty level. Anything paid in comes back, and then some. This is just hyperbolic nonsense designed to stir up a response.

If you would like to provide proof of your claims, however, I'd be thoroughly stunned.
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

Oh, that's alright. Our roads are in great shape. ;)

And that was with the gov't fully functioning. Pretty much proves that we won't lose much shutting it down.

Time to hit the switch. Lights out, boys.
 
Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

This tax burden on the poor crap is just that, crap. Having been poor (in a state with state and city income tax) I can tell you first hand, there is no tax obligation for somebody near the poverty level. Anything paid in comes back, and then some. This is just hyperbolic nonsense designed to stir up a response.

If you would like to provide proof of your claims, however, I'd be thoroughly stunned.

That largely depends on where you live. I can likewise tell you the opposite was true in some places I lived. But that is the average.

We're already starting to just look the other way when major corporations dodge around taxes. How long before we stop pretending we care and just get rid of their taxes all together? And who is that tax gap burden falling on? Before you tell me "the middle class," what do the middle class turn into when they run out of money?
 
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Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

Taxing the rich is such an easy answer to every problem. It requires no critical thought. And only one little knee jerk reaction.

No, what's easy is attacking those people who are politically incapable of defending themselves. It not only requires no critical thought, it historically goes against rationality and logic based on various events in our history. Unfortunately, it's not just a little knee jerk reaction, it's planned and organized as part of an overall agenda.

The wealthy in this country possess nearly all the chips: money, wealth and influence. They control the media, they control the assets and they control a large portion of the government. So the idea that "taxing the rich is easy" is laughable. Yes, I know that "taxing the rich is such an easy answer" was your actual statement but it implies that the rich are just sitting there with no control whatsoever over their political options when the truth of the matter is far from the wealthy being a group of powerless victims with absolutely no say.
 
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