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Thread: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds over

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    Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Quality of life isn't a strawman argument, perhaps you should look up the definitions.

    As far as third rate sources? Here are a few more. Perhaps you'll recognize the organizations:

    Why China's Ghost Towns Matter for Our Economy - Derek Thompson - Business - The Atlantic

    And Now Presenting: Amazing Satellite Images Of The Ghost Cities Of China

    Ordos, China: A Modern Ghost Town - Photo Essays - TIME

    China's Ghost Cities: Could The Real Estate Bubble Burst? (VIDEO)

    A Ghost Town in China - Slide Show - NYTimes.com

    Ghost Towns In China Due to Property Bubble - Robert Lenzner - StreetTalk - Forbes

    Also, let's not forget....these ghost towns were built and never populated. Toledo used to be populated and has since seen some decline in some areas. Nothing on par with the size and scope of these Chinese towns.
    First off, it is a straw man to bring up the poor quality of life in China as i never made a comment pertaining to how good they have it in China.

    Again, you can link to the character maximum, it still does not discredit my statement that these "ghost towns" are the exception rather than the rule. When you actually go to China and see a ghost town, i'll be more than willing to take your opinion with anything more than a grain of salt.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    All I am saying is that America needs to invest in infrastructure to keep up with the rest of the world, to get off of foreign oil, and to have quality of life comparable to the rest of the world in the future.
    What do you mean by this? The stimulus was largely about funding public sector union jobs at the state level to keep the one term Marxist president Obama's voter base employed. Is this the infrastructure you believe needs to be funded? Why aren't two trillion dollars enough to "invest in infrastructure"? Why does that require an additional borrowing and printing of 1.6 trillion more?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    The immediate concern in the recession, which isn't the same as the government spending money. We need to fix the recession first, then fixing government spending will be easier.
    Stopping the government spending will automatically put us on the right track to end the one term Marxist president Obama's depression.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Attacking public sector workers or shutting down the government like in Minnesota is not going to help the recession, the debt, or deficit. It will cost the state money, and firing public sector workers will put more people on unemployment and government assistance.
    It stops the madness. That is a very good start.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    The difference is when they are productive and working in the public sector, they are producing services and goods and being innovative, all of which has more positive ramifications on the private sector than sitting on the couch and collecting gov assistance.
    Government workers, as a rule do not create wealth. They consume the wealth that others created and had take from them. By force. Shut down the public sector unions. They are dangerous to our liberty. They consume our wealth.

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    Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    How about some of this??


    This is an assumption based on....not sure what. I never said that. Never even implied it.


    This is a generalization or stereotype of the GOP and is quite untrue, and merely a matter of biased perspective


    An assumption of my attitude, based on a statement I never made.


    Generalization AND assumption based, again, on a biased perspective of the GOP's intent. This is a typical and often indefensible (with facts) argument used to villianize the GOP for having a different idea on how to improve our country.


    An assumption based, again, on an argument I never made.

    Answer your question? Basically, that entire post was assumption, generalization, and opinions....all presented as facts..or at least, presented as something you're so sure of that you treat it as fact.
    If you read my comments closely, it's obvious they are worded like they are opinions and I did that intentionally.

    And now it seems you are telling me we have to let China pass us up, because it can ONLY be done on the backs of the people... slave laboring with zero workers rights? America didn't build infrastructure that way, never did.
    That's the way it seems to me, that's is my opinion. I am not telling you what you are saying, that your views are flawed. I am not telling you how it is. I am telling you how I OBSERVE things to be.

    It's pretty cut and dry stuff. You can't have a discussion in a debate thread with an empty mind or no opinions. My opinions came from somewhere, and I always knew they were opinions. Tried to make it apparent in the wording that it's not a fact. I know that. Part of debating here is learning... I have to approach a discussion somehow. You also did a lot of same things in your responses to me.

    So for the third time, where are millionaires and billionaires moving? I honestly can't think they want to move somewhere 1st world... especially no Europe, not Canada, so doesn't leave very many 1st world countries. Obviously they are trade offs. Where are they moving to?
    Last edited by SheWolf; 07-01-11 at 02:06 PM.

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    Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    What do you mean by this? The stimulus was largely about funding public sector union jobs at the state level to keep the one term Marxist president Obama's voter base employed. Is this the infrastructure you believe needs to be funded? Why aren't two trillion dollars enough to "invest in infrastructure"? Why does that require an additional borrowing and printing of 1.6 trillion more?


    Stopping the government spending will automatically put us on the right track to end the one term Marxist president Obama's depression.


    It stops the madness. That is a very good start.


    Government workers, as a rule do not create wealth. They consume the wealth that others created and had take from them. By force. Shut down the public sector unions. They are dangerous to our liberty. They consume our wealth.
    Show me that rule... how wait, we established you don't know anything about economics and I know too much. I am sure your definition of wealth, like all your other economic definitions, is flawed to boot...

    I am not debating the stimulus either.

    It seems like your only economic concern is government management, not the free market, or general economics... why else would you argue to impair the economic prosperity of the entire country like that? You're wearing tunnel vision goggles...

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    Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Show me that rule... how wait, we established you don't know anything about economics and I know too much. I am sure your definition of wealth, like all your other economic definitions, is flawed to boot...
    So why did you dodge? My starting assumption is that you are all knowing and that I know nothing at all. But if you believe that government workers create wealth perhaps my starting assumption is flawed.
    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I am not debating the stimulus either.
    I was responding to your statement that we need to invest in America's infrastructure. The stimulus was supposed to be all about funding shove ready jobs. The one term Marxist president Obama lied. It was never about that. It was about funding unions.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    It seems like your only economic concern is government management, not the free market, or general economics... why else would you argue to impair the economic prosperity of the entire country like that? You're wearing tunnel vision goggles...
    I loathe centrally planned top down economies. The government has some very limited responsibilities. It needs to return to its Constitutional boundaries so that we can continue to remain free. The free market works best at putting scarce resources to work for the greatest good of all concerned. Governments always fail because they have no interest in providing anything of value other than votes for incumbent politicians.

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    Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    So why did you dodge? My starting assumption is that you are all knowing and that I know nothing at all. But if you believe that government workers create wealth perhaps my starting assumption is flawed.

    I was responding to your statement that we need to invest in America's infrastructure. The stimulus was supposed to be all about funding shove ready jobs. The one term Marxist president Obama lied. It was never about that. It was about funding unions.


    I loathe centrally planned top down economies. The government has some very limited responsibilities. It needs to return to its Constitutional boundaries so that we can continue to remain free. The free market works best at putting scarce resources to work for the greatest good of all concerned. Governments always fail because they have no interest in providing anything of value other than votes for incumbent politicians.
    I dodged because your question is ridiculous... The government and government workers have created a lot of wealth and assets for this country which are currently owned by the country and you probably take advantage of such assets everyday. Government assets would be military bases, military equipment, public roads, millions of acres of federally and government owned public lands, federally/government owned parks, federally/government owned buildings, canals and waterway systems, bridges, etc. etc..

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    Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I dodged because your question is ridiculous... The government and government workers have created a lot of wealth and assets for this country which are currently owned by the country and you probably take advantage of such assets everyday. Government assets would be military bases, military equipment, public roads, millions of acres of federally and government owned public lands, federally/government owned parks, federally/government owned buildings, canals and waterway systems, bridges, etc. etc..
    Some people seem to think that if some resource does not make money through usage charges, it must not be worth the money invested into it. They tend to ignore the use and utility to brings for society as a whole.

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    Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I dodged because your question is ridiculous... The government and government workers have created a lot of wealth and assets for this country which are currently owned by the country and you probably take advantage of such assets everyday.
    Well no. Government workers did not create wealth. They took wealth from others to create a few things of value. That wealth was created by others. Not by government workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Government assets would be military bases, military equipment, public roads, millions of acres of federally and government owned public lands, federally/government owned parks, federally/government owned buildings, canals and waterway systems, bridges, etc. etc..
    I am delighted to see that the government took the wealth that others created and used some of it to purchase a few things of value. What about the rest?

    This is where most liberals just get it wrong and always will. Government, sometimes takes the wealth that others have created, and uses it to purchase the things that support its constitutional role. But more often than not government uses the wealth of others to grow...government.

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    Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Some people seem to think that if some resource does not make money through usage charges, it must not be worth the money invested into it. They tend to ignore the use and utility to brings for society as a whole.
    Some people think that government has vaults full of money that it did not take from productive people. They tend to ignore the use and utility that wealth in private hands brings to society as a whole.

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    Re: Minn. braces for shutdown at midnight; Democratic gov and GOP lawmakers at odds o

    The Minnesota GOP pushed this as a test to see how the pubic reacts to it so they can decide if they do the same in more states and even on the national level and get away with blaming the Democrats. It is part of right wing war on the working class by destroying government as a viable ally of the working class American.
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