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Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

Boo Radley said:
No, I understand completely.
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Well no. You really don't.

Boo Radley said:
You have, it seems to me, an idealize view and not a reality based view. Bodies mean dollars. As long as that is true, the focus will be on bodys.
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When you spend your own dollars on things that you choose to purchase how do you do it? Without government intervention, I mean. Do you consider the cost versus the likely benefit? Do you read consumer reviews to see what other past customers say about the product? Do you consider asking friends for their opinions? And if you don't have a good experience do you keep going back?

The part you appear to be missing is the customer's role in the transaction. I can vote with my dollars. If you do not meet my expectations I do not go back. Let me give you an example. I buy moderately priced books from a company in England. Over the last two years I have purchased roughly 25 books at an average price of $60. The last book I purchased was a very slim volume. I believe they charged me too much given the subject and the slimness of the volume. I decided I shall no longer do business with them because of my one "bad" experience. I am voting with my dollars.


Boo Radley said:
It's already true in higher education where students have become customers, and profit means getting them, and high standards means losing them, so more than a few places make sure they don't lose them, . . . . at the cost of actual education. This is how the market works. Which is fine for widgets, but less fine for education and medicine IMHO.
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The difference is who pays. When the government foots all or much of the bill it distorts the market. So get the government completely out of education, loosen the rules and regulations and let a thousand education companies open.

Unfortunately your view of how the market works does not include the customers. Therefore you do not understand the free market.
 
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haymarket said:
Which nation have you resided in for the past thirty years? They have been going down in the USA and are now at modern day record lows.
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Really? The Congress finds ways to raise the numbers of ways it can tax us. I see about half of everything I earn going to taxes at various levels. About 1/3rd is explicitly Income tax. Then there is the ss tax (another 12% or so), medicare...
Then we have the federal gas tax on every gallon of gas we buy.

Taxes have been raised and raised. Now it is time for real spending cuts.
 
haymarket said:
like Yellowstone and Yosemite for development or strip mining?
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If that is who pays for it. How about a theme park operator instead. It might attract top dollar as a tourist destination. Instead of costing dollars to own and operate it could end up generating dollars locally through sales taxes and federally through income tax dollars from the private sector people employed there.
 
haymarket said:
Which nation have you resided in for the past thirty years? They have been going down in the USA and are now at modern day record lows.
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Here is another way of looking at it .. in the last 23 years .. we've raised taxes by 25% …(from 28% to 35%) and we've increased defitict spending by roughly 1000% (155billion to 1.5 trillion)

But according to liberals we don't have a spending problem .. we have a taxation problem ..
 
Misterveritis said:
Well no. You really don't.


When you spend your own dollars on things that you choose to purchase how do you do it? Without government intervention, I mean. Do you consider the cost versus the likely benefit? Do you read consumer reviews to see what other past customers say about the product? Do you consider asking friends for their opinions? And if you don't have a good experience do you keep going back?

The part you appear to be missing is the customer's role in the transaction. I can vote with my dollars. If you do not meet my expectations I do not go back. Let me give you an example. I buy moderately priced books from a company in England. Over the last two years I have purchased roughly 25 books at an average price of $60. The last book I purchased was a very slim volume. I believe they charged me too much given the subject and the slimness of the volume. I decided I shall no longer do business with them because of my one "bad" experience. I am voting with my dollars.



The difference is who pays. When the government foots all or much of the bill it distorts the market. So get the government completely out of education, loosen the rules and regulations and let a thousand education companies open.

Unfortunately your view of how the market works does not include the customers. Therefore you do not understand the free market.
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You will notice people spend money on things that don't benefit them all the time. Today, in the free market, where government is not involved, people spend money to some schools not for an education, but for the grade and paper. We have today, right now, predatory institutions that scam people. It makes no difference who pays, as the people seeking the easy way will do it regardless of who's money is spent. BTW, today, many are losing their own money on worhtless efforts.

The consumer does not always seek quality. Even been to a rent to own? Does Wlamart have better quality than the the Amish? I suggest it is you who are really not considering the consumer in this, and it is you who doesn't understand the market.
 
Boo Radley said:
Cuts have consequences
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they sure do

California budget: Democrats pass austerity budget - Los Angeles Times

Cuomo budget: $10 billion deficit cut, no new taxes, layoffs likely

Jerry Brown Budget Cuts | California budget: Gov. Jerry Brown approves cuts to services for poor, sick and elderly - Los Angeles Times

MA House votes to restrict unions - Boston.com

New Jersey Assembly Passes Bill That Requires Public Workers' Unions To Pay More For Benefits - WPIX

Emanuel Unveils Major Budget Cut On First Full Day « CBS Chicago

Governor Pat Quinn signs Illinois education reform bill into law, new rules effect school days, teacher strikes, tenure | abc7chicago.com

Detroit Moves Against Unions - WSJ.com

Union Deal Defeated; Gov. Malloy Pledges To Cut State Workers - CTnow

good thinking
 
well, mr bobb is LOADED

voiding contracts, ripping up collective bargaining, pink slipping the entire workforce, auctioning off detroit's public schools...

Boo Radley said:
I prefer Detroit's choice to Milwaukee's
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Boo Radley said:
I accept your surrender. when you have nothing, you have nothing. :coffeepap
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Yes I've surrendered to your stupidity as well .. along with adding absolutely nothing to the discussion .. .
 
Misterveritis said:
Defense is one of the few enumerated powers.
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Exactly, defense only. Nothing is mentioned about maintaining an imperialistic military that we spend almost as much on as the rest of the world, COMBINED!
 
Misterveritis said:
The only way you can believe that existing tax law steals money is if you believe that everything belongs to the state. Maybe the government should sell off its tremendous land holdings in order to "repay" the money collected for social security but actually used for everything else the politicians wanted it for.
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Not at all, I just believe in our progressive tax system that has been held to be Constitutional by the rule of law in this country under both parties and supported by our forefathers for the last 80 years.

If times get tough all we have to do is stop all our optional wars, cut our imperialistic military spending by two-thirds, eliminate the tax breaks for the wealthy and institute a single payer health care system. Until we do that, we are just pissing in the wind and not at all serious about reducing our debt.
 
Catawba said:
all we have to do is stop all our optional wars
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Obama sends 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan - World - CBC News

Obama's unauthorized war on Libya costs $9,421,000 a day: Are you getting your money's worth? - latimes.com

cut our imperialistic military spending by two-thirds
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President's budget sinks, 97-0 - TheHill.com

eliminate the tax breaks for the wealthy
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Obama Calls Tax Cuts the 'Right Thing to Do'

and institute a single payer health care system
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LOL!

it can't even get thru committee

in other words, it must get lonely in old petersburg
 
The Barbarian said:
Yes I've surrendered to your stupidity as well .. along with adding absolutely nothing to the discussion .. .
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I think some of you only see agreement as adding to the discussion. Not you or MisterV have disputed in any meaningful way that the market does produce somethign less than quality at times. The market has produced predatory institutions that make money but give little in return for that money. Instead of spouting platitiudes about the market, how about addressing the facts.
 
Boo Radley said:
if you care about education, you do something more targetted, more aimed at the problem, and not the things that will effect children and education the most
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you mean like closing schools left and right, auctioning them off to private bidders, pink slipping entire districts...

LOL!
 
hardly a moderate

why, barack the slasher hussein is a NEOCON!

LOL!
 
The Prof said:
hardly a moderate

why, barack the slasher hussein is a NEOCON!

LOL!
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True liberals don't continue multiple optional wars. FYI! :sun
 
obama's a loser

party on, peaceniks
 
The Prof said:
obama's a loser

party on, peaceniks
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Yep, and still a better alternative than anyone the GOP has dug up. Who is the GOP candidate proposing less military spending and more education funding than Obama? :sun
 
Catawba said:
Yep, and still a better alternative than anyone the GOP has dug up. Who is the GOP candidate proposing less military spending and more education funding than Obama? :sun
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Well, first off Cat, I would say to you that liberals such as yourself don't chose our candidates, and they certainly shouldn't adhere to some fictitious litmus test that you put up, with goals only important to you, and your agenda. That is laughably ridiculous...

Even the prominent liberal blogger for the Gaurdian news paper in the UK writes this about one candidate that so far isn't in yet, but many hope he enters...

Having Texas as a political base gives him some huge advantages. One is the fundraising potential, gifting Perry a goldmine that the likes of Mitt Romney or Michele Bachmann can't enter. The other is the cluster of political support that Perry has built up, giving him a deep pool of staff, backers and volunteers. And Texas boasts 149 delegates to the Republican convention, the most of any state other than California. (New Hampshire, in contrast, has just 20.)

Perry's record as governor of Texas might not delight Democrats but he's a hero in Republican circles for his rock-ribbed conservatism and gun-toting populism. That makes him the only candidate able to span the Tea Party and more mainstream Republican wings of the party, on both social and economic issues. And the private sector job creation that Texas can boast under Perry's leadership gives him an enviable record that his primary rivals (and Obama) will find difficult to rebut.

Added to all that is the fact that Perry has won three gubernatorial elections after bitterly contested Republican primaries in Texas. So he knows how to win an intra-party struggle in a big state – something that can't be said for the likes of Romney. His demolition of US Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison in the 2010 Republican primary was a case in point, a brilliant if bare-knuckle campaign.

Beware Rick Perry, the Republican party's real deal | Richard Adams | World news | guardian.co.uk
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No wonder that NObama is scared enough to begin his fundraising, and indeed his campaign so early, and so prominently. He is scared, and should be. Perry would trounce him soundly in a general election, and for this nations sake, I hope he does.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Well, first off Cat, I would say to you that liberals such as yourself don't chose our candidates, and they certainly shouldn't adhere to some fictitious litmus test that you put up, with goals only important to you, and your agenda. That is laughably ridiculous...

Even the prominent liberal blogger for the Gaurdian news paper in the UK writes this about one candidate that so far isn't in yet, but many hope he enters...



No wonder that NObama is scared enough to begin his fundraising, and indeed his campaign so early, and so prominently. He is scared, and should be. Perry would trounce him soundly in a general election, and for this nations sake, I hope he does.

j-mac
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When I said, we will reelect Obama, I mean the country will, not liberals. You are correct that liberals do not choose our candidates, neither does the far-right. If we did we would not have the moderate Obama as president, we would have a liberal as president now.

It is the moderates predominately, and the left or right just tend to tip it in one direction or another. That is why we have moderates as President time after time, like both our candidates in 2008, and will again next year with Romney vs Obama. Moderates are not going for your far-right (secede from the Union) Perry, which is why he has had the good sense not even to enter the race.
 
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