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Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

Catawba said:
You are mistaken, that is the amount that has been taken from SS to provide the tax cuts for the rich. It is the tax cuts that have been and are the unfunded liability.
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All property belongs to the state. Is that correct my Marxist comrade?
 
Boo Radley said:
bringing in means that the focus will not be on education, but enrollment. The two do not mean the same thing.
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Your comment implies that you do not understand how a free market works. A pity really. But it clarifies a great deal for me.
 
The Barbarian said:
Then I would like to hear more about the organization you are it … because it sounds like something that more states need to adopt ..

As per the article .. thats not quite true . Teachers pay has risen to where they are more on par with the average wage of workers .. now I'm sure that differs in different parts of the country, and as I said .. I don't have a problem with wages at all, teachers should be well paid for what they do, what seems to be the main problem is the insurance and retirement that they get … at least those in unions. As has been mentioned various times before this things amount to 2.5 trillion dollars of debt for the states. I'm not sure about you … but I have trouble wrapping my mind around such a number.

I would like to thank you for your post too, if more people that carried the title of liberal were like you, we could have sane and sensible discussions about the problems we face …course we would have to get the conservatives to tone it down also.
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The organization is MSTA(Missouri State Teachers Organization). They have a website where they post what they are doing.
Missouri State Teachers Assoc.
As for pay and benefits, people don't realize how different they are form state to state and sometimes school to school. Missouri is one of the lowest paying states. Insurance varies from school to school. The insurance at my school is not good and if I chose to use it, I would be the only one paid for. Our retirement is deducted from our salary and Missouri teachers don't draw social security.
 
Layla_Z said:
The organization is MSTA(Missouri State Teachers Organization). They have a website where they post what they are doing.
Missouri State Teachers Assoc.
As for pay and benefits, people don't realize how different they are form state to state and sometimes school to school. Missouri is one of the lowest paying states. Insurance varies from school to school. The insurance at my school is not good and if I chose to use it, I would be the only one paid for. Our retirement is deducted from our salary and Missouri teachers don't draw social security.
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Okay did a bit of checking on schools in Missouri, and found that you are below the national average Of course “they” say that you are still doing okay because of the cost of living there, I'm not sure if I believe that … and think you could clear that up better then most.

I also found that the size of classes there are as a whole good .. with a large majority of them being 14 or under per teachers, but was kind of confused because when you found one higher .. it seems to be and extreme number .. (upper 20's) thankfully they seemed far and few between.

As to the cut you took … I could find nothing where teachers salaries were cut .. .except for that getting extra pay for teaching a 6h class during your day. Or have I just missed something ? I also found where they haven't denied the raise for the 2011/2012 year … if not at least that is a good thing ..

I see no reason why your retirement account can't be more like the private corporations that match funds up to a percentage of what you put towards your towards you retirement .. .to me that is fair . .and encourages you to put all you can of your money towards retirement as well .

One last thing .. I found this .. not sure if this includes your district or not .. but sure shows how a system can be abused .. Newspaper: Mo. Teachers pension fund officials living it up - Columbia Missourian
 
The Barbarian said:
Okay did a bit of checking on schools in Missouri, and found that you are below the national average Of course “they” say that you are still doing okay because of the cost of living there, I'm not sure if I believe that … and think you could clear that up better then most.

I also found that the size of classes there are as a whole good .. with a large majority of them being 14 or under per teachers, but was kind of confused because when you found one higher .. it seems to be and extreme number .. (upper 20's) thankfully they seemed far and few between.

As to the cut you took … I could find nothing where teachers salaries were cut .. .except for that getting extra pay for teaching a 6h class during your day. Or have I just missed something ? I also found where they haven't denied the raise for the 2011/2012 year … if not at least that is a good thing ..

I see no reason why your retirement account can't be more like the private corporations that match funds up to a percentage of what you put towards your towards you retirement .. .to me that is fair . .and encourages you to put all you can of your money towards retirement as well .

One last thing .. I found this .. not sure if this includes your district or not .. but sure shows how a system can be abused .. Newspaper: Mo. Teachers pension fund officials living it up - Columbia Missourian
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I think you saw the odd class sizes because some many Missouri schools are small rural schools. I've taught in schools that only have 12-15 kids per grade. You can have a large class size when the number of kids in a grade is on the bubble. For example, a school has 26 2nd graders. Should they have two teachers which would give two small classes but would cost more or should they have one large class?
A program called career ladder was cut which caused a pay cut for the teachers involved in the program. The size of the cut depended on how long you'd been teaching, how long you'd been in the program, and what your local district did. It paid for teachers to work beyond their contracted time. Some districts paid some or all of it, some didn't. Teachers would get paid a lump sum, minus taxes, in July. What was the most frustrating is that when the state first planned to not fund the program it was the end of the school year. The teachers had already done the work but the state wasn't going to pay their share. This didn't happen, thanks in no small part to MSTA, but the state didn't fund it for the next year.

I remember the abuse of the system. That kind of thing seems to happen again and again.
 
Boo Radley said:
Any serious approach to our financial problems would include both spending cuts and tax increases. And both should be targeted, wisely done, planned to get the most bang for the buck, so to speak.
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exactly. But for some reason the republicans don't feel that way and I don't understand it. If you just do one and not the other you just continue to tread water.
 
GoVote2012 said:
the republicans don't feel that way and I don't understand it
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cuomo does, moonbeam does

Cuomo budget: $10 billion deficit cut, no new taxes, layoffs likely

California budget: Democrats pass austerity budget - Los Angeles Times

and, unlike you, they are the governors of the two biggest and bluest states in the union

ie, they matter, they're significant

why don't you let governor cuomo explain it for you:

GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS | Governor Andrew M. Cuomo
 
The Barbarian said:
Really since we are talking about Wisconsin here .. tell me how the far right created it .. . it was a Democrat for the last 8 years before Walker ... and since 1959 Wisconsin has had a democratic governor for 26 years .. and a republican governor for 17 years .. of are you just busy foaming at the mouth again .
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Are you telling me you are honestly unaware that:

"A national recession can devastate state and local budgets. California, for example, has closed many schools and cut teachers' salaries, although this was recently voided by a court order. Spending has been cut in many states while taxes have been raised."

State and Local Budgets
 
Misterveritis said:
Perhaps we ought to stop all the spending for extra-constitutional purposes.
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I already said we needed to cut our imperialistic sized military spending. No need to be redundant. :sun
 
Misterveritis said:
Not so fast my Marxist comrade. The real right answer is to get the government completely out of health care.
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Throwing the poor and middle class to the wolves doesn't fit with my upbringing. But that's just me. :sun
 
Misterveritis said:
All property belongs to the state. Is that correct my Marxist comrade?
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Exactly the opposite, the government will have to repay the money it has stolen from our future seniors via their tax cuts to the rich.
 
The Barbarian said:
just a guess ... but Democratic .. .the same way they have voted in the last election, the one before that .. the one before that .. and the one before that
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Is it your misinformed stance to say all teachers are democrat?? Or is that why republicans love to cut spending on education?? They are not smart enough to be teachers..

It would explain a lot..
 
GoVote2012 said:
exactly. But for some reason the republicans don't feel that way and I don't understand it. If you just do one and not the other you just continue to tread water.
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Agreed. I don't understand why anyone doesn't see this.
 
Misterveritis said:
Your comment implies that you do not understand how a free market works. A pity really. But it clarifies a great deal for me.
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No, I understand completely. You have, it seems to me, an idealize view and not a reality based view. Bodies mean dollars. As long as that is true, the focus will be on bodys. It's already true in higher education where students have become customers, and profit means getting them, and high standards means losing them, so more than a few places make sure they don't lose them, . . . . at the cost of actual education. This is how the market works. Which is fine for widgets, but less fine for education and medicine IMHO.
 
Catawba said:
Throwing the poor and middle class to the wolves doesn't fit with my upbringing
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who cares

it has become standard operating procedure for jerry brown and rahm emanuel and andrew cuomo and the new jersey house and the massachusetts house and the springfield assembly and governors quinn and omalley and malloy...

cuz if you can't even get cuomo or moonbeam or rahm the ram to go along with you...

LOL!

you must really be out there
 
Boo Radley said:
This is how the market works. Which is fine for widgets, but less fine for education
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true

which is why it's always wiser to choose to: void union contracts, slash collective bargaining, pink slip everyone, auction off public schools to private bidders, close up to a third of a district by executive fiat...

Boo Radley said:
Personally I prefer Detroit's choice to Milwaukee's
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think much?
 
DemonMyst said:
Is it your misinformed stance to say all teachers are democrat?? Or is that why republicans love to cut spending on education?? They are not smart enough to be teachers..

It would explain a lot..
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No it's you misinformed stance that they don't vote overwhelmingly democrat..... Seeing how unions back democrats with 90% of their political donations, and unions are just a representation of their people right ?? Or are you suggesting that they don't represent their people ?

No it's not that republicans aren't smart enough to go into teaching .. . instead they go into business .. .where they can make even more money .. everyone knows a democrat knows squat about running a business ..
 
GoVote2012 said:
exactly. But for some reason the republicans don't feel that way and I don't understand it. If you just do one and not the other you just continue to tread water.
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The taxes have already been raised quite high enough, thank you. Now it is time to get in the needed spending cuts.
 
Catawba said:
I already said we needed to cut our imperialistic sized military spending. No need to be redundant. :sun
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Defense is one of the few enumerated powers. Of course you would call for cuts in defense. So would the one term Marxist president Obama.
I am not surprised by either your position or his.
 
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Catawba said:
Throwing the poor and middle class to the wolves doesn't fit with my upbringing. But that's just me. :sun
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Do you consider the people "thrown to the wolves" when they must make any other purchases without the benefit of the Federal government's intervention? What an odd way to look at the world.

I guess it is that whole Marxist, centralization of power and authority thing. You, and the one term Marxist president Obama, have it.
 
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Catawba said:
Exactly the opposite, the government will have to repay the money it has stolen from our future seniors via their tax cuts to the rich.
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The only way you can believe that existing tax law steals money is if you believe that everything belongs to the state. Maybe the government should sell off its tremendous land holdings in order to "repay" the money collected for social security but actually used for everything else the politicians wanted it for.
 
Misterveritis said:
The taxes have already been raised quite high enough, thank you. Now it is time to get in the needed spending cuts.
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Which nation have you resided in for the past thirty years? They have been going down in the USA and are now at modern day record lows.
 
Misterveritis said:
The only way you can believe that existing tax law steals money is if you believe that everything belongs to the state. Maybe the government should sell off its tremendous land holdings in order to "repay" the money collected for social security but actually used for everything else the politicians wanted it for.
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like Yellowstone and Yosemite for development or strip mining?
 
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