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Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

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j-mac

So, they hope the parents are more likely to be involved?

From you link:

Public and charter schools are not much different.

How about we check results:

Study of Test Scores Finds Charter Schools Lagging

WASHINGTON, Aug. 22 — Fourth graders in traditional public schools did significantly better in reading and math than comparable children attending charter schools, according to a report released on Tuesday by the Federal Education Department.

Study of Test Scores Finds Charter Schools Lagging - New York Times
 
So, they hope the parents are more likely to be involved?

From you link:



How about we check results:

Study of Test Scores Finds Charter Schools Lagging

WASHINGTON, Aug. 22 — Fourth graders in traditional public schools did significantly better in reading and math than comparable children attending charter schools, according to a report released on Tuesday by the Federal Education Department.

Study of Test Scores Finds Charter Schools Lagging - New York Times

I assume that parents that take the time to sign their kids up for charter schools would be more engaged then parents that don't. So, using your previous logic (and what I would have thought too), shouldn't charter school kids be doing better? Do they give a reason for the discrepancy?
 
I assume that parents that take the time to sign their kids up for charter schools would be more engaged then parents that don't. So, using your previous logic (and what I would have thought too), shouldn't charter school kids be doing better? Do they give a reason for the discrepancy?

You make an assumption not supported. I don't know if they do or don't. Some assume they would, but that isn't actual evidence they do.

But, let's look at the facts. They don't teach math differently, for example. They may have a little more freedom, which could easily be given to public schools. They have not done better on tests, so exactly what is the rationale for prefering them over public schools?
 
I don't know anyone of siginificance who believes and "behave as if all property belongs to the state and the rich should not be allowed to keep so much of their property."
Perhaps you should listen more to your liberal friends in Congress.

We have aprogressive tax system,
Why do we have a progressive tax system? What makes taking far more from one person than from another moral, or right?

no more and no less, and there has only been suggestions of a small percentage increase, nothing more.
...and as long as it is someone else who is having their wealth taken I suppose it is not a big deal. Hey! Spread the wealth. It is your patriotic duty.

Nothing going on today equal marxist or Socialism or Communism. It is pure silliness to use that tired old unoriginal nonsense. It's bad to spew nonsense, but to be unoriginal to boot?
I say it because it is true. I say it because I must. The lie must be countered. For evil to win the good need do nothing. It is Marxist. Tired or not.


Do you even read what I type? Shoudl I type slower? I said CUT SPENDING
This is the correct stopping point.


and raise taxes.
Socialist Tourette syndrome. Tourette syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

More's the pity.
Agreed. But not the same way you meant it.
 
Perhaps you should listen more to your liberal friends in Congress.


Why do we have a progressive tax system? What makes taking far more from one person than from another moral, or right?


...and as long as it is someone else who is having their wealth taken I suppose it is not a big deal. Hey! Spread the wealth. It is your patriotic duty.


I say it because it is true. I say it because I must. The lie must be countered. For evil to win the good need do nothing. It is Marxist. Tired or not.



This is the correct stopping point.



Socialist Tourette syndrome. Tourette syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Agreed. But not the same way you meant it.

I'm sorry but you can't be taken seriously when you go down nutter lane with the Marist / socialist / communist silliness.
 
Except the private schools generally pay their teachers better than public schools, ain't that a kicker! :sun

Private schools don't pay better. Their teachers don't have to be certified either.
 
I'm sorry but you can't be taken seriously when you go down nutter lane with the Marist / socialist / communist silliness.

Exactly, anyone who thinks our forefathers were Marxist for supporting progressive taxes, SS and Medicare that created the strongest middle class in our history, are pretty much as nutter as they get.
 
Start here...




j-mac

This is from your link.

"A study done by Stanford University found that charter schools on average perform about the same or worse compared to public schools."
 
Private schools don't pay better. Their teachers don't have to be certified either.

I stand corrected and you've helped explain why. Thanks! :sun
 
I'm so sick of this. Of couse the Obama children attend a small private school. Security would be easier. Don't make it into something it's not.

best to ignore.
 
Security would be easier.

security concerns: 39% of chicago public school teachers send their kids to private schools, says the chicago trib

Their kids, your kids - Chicago Tribune

of course, security in the windy city is a real worry

"in chicago, nearly 700 children were hit by gunfire last year---an average of almost two a day---and 66 of them died"

Chicago's Schools, Police Work To Stem Violence : NPR

the "wave of violence" drowning chicago's schools has been going on for years, cnn used to cover it a lot

Minority youngsters dying weekly on Chicago's streets - CNN

36 Chicago area students killed sets record - Washington Times

Twenty CPS Students Killed Already This Year

which only makes obama's promotion of arne duncan from ceo of chicago's school system to secretary of education all the more bizarre

security, anyone?
 
you can't be taken seriously

of course, of course...

but what's the SYDNEY MORNING HERALD say about what MISTER BOBB's doing in DETROIT?

LOL!

you remember, the voiding of union contracts, the pink slipping of the entire work force, the unilateral negation of collective bargaining, the bidding out of schools to private operators...

Personally I prefer Detroit's choice to Milwaukee's

i wonder what mr bobb thinks of VOUCHERS
 
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security concerns: 39% of chicago public school teachers send their kids to private schools, says the chicago trib

Their kids, your kids - Chicago Tribune

of course, security in the windy city is a real worry

"in chicago, nearly 700 children were hit by gunfire last year---an average of almost two a day---and 66 of them died"

Chicago's Schools, Police Work To Stem Violence : NPR

the "wave of violence" drowning chicago's schools has been going on for years, cnn used to cover it a lot

Minority youngsters dying weekly on Chicago's streets - CNN

36 Chicago area students killed sets record - Washington Times

Twenty CPS Students Killed Already This Year

which only makes obama's promotion of arne duncan from ceo of chicago's school system to secretary of education all the more bizarre

security, anyone?

I'm talking about the special security for the children of the president.

Nothing in your post has anything to do with the topic. Why don't you start an "I hate President Obama and teachers" thread, then your posts will fit right in.
 
I'm talking about the special security for the children of the president.

good for you

i'm talking about the high desirability by those in the know for private over public education

Private-school choice is a popular practice among both congressional Republicans and Democrats. Thirty-eight percent of House Republicans and 34 percent of House Democrats have sent their children to private school. In the Senate, 53 percent of Republicans and 37 percent of Democrats have exercised private-school choice for their children. Thirty five percent of Congressional Black Caucus Members have sent a child to private school. Only 6 percent of black students overall attend private school.

How Members of the 111th Congress Practice Private School Choice

why do so many want out?

did you stop to READ what's going on in the chicago schools?

why arne duncan?

weird
 
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good for you

i'm talking about the high desirability by those in the know for private over public education



How Members of the 111th Congress Practice Private School Choice

why do so many want out?

did you stop to READ what's going on in the chicago schools?

why arne duncan?

weird

I don't know a single teacher who sends their children to a private school. I know I don't. However, if I lived in a large urban district I might feel differently. Not all schools are Chicago schools or any other inner city schools.

Arne Duncan is not the topic of this thread. In fact, none of this is.
 
FEW cliches permeate our culture more thoroughly than that of the underpaid schoolteacher. In fact, many people would say that if they know anything about public schools it is that teachers deserve far more money than they actually get.

But the idea that teachers are underpaid is a myth. When we discard our presuppositions and look at the evidence, it turns out that teachers actually are better paid than many people realize.

As of 2002, the average salary for teachers nationwide was about $44,600. That does seem modest. But we need account for the relatively few hours that teachers actually spend working compared to other professionals.

That is, a teacher who earns $45,000 to work for nine months is clearly better paid than a nurse who gets the same salary for working 12 months.

Since teachers' work schedule distorts direct salary comparisons with other jobs, we need to look at hourly pay.

According to the U.S. Department of Labor, the average public elementary school teacher in the United States earns about $30.75 an hour. The average hourly pay of other public-service employees - such as firefighters ($17.91) or police officers ($22.64) - pales in comparison.

Indeed, teachers' hourly rate exceeds even those in professions that require far more training and expertise. Compare the schoolteacher's $30.75 to the average biologist's $28.07 an hour - or the mechanical engineer's $29.76 or the chemist's $30.68.

Whose hourly pay is competitive with that of teachers? Computer scientists ($32.86), dentists ($35.51) and even nuclear engineers ($36.16).

Note, too, that these hourly figures exclude benefits, such as health coverage and retirement accounts, which are typically more generous for government employeas teachers, than for private-sector workers.

But don't teachers spend a great deal of time grading papers and creating lesson plans while away from school? Some do - but the comparisons here are still fair - because other professionals do work away from the office, too. Engineers and computer scientists are certainly no strangers to long nights working at home.

Nor do teachers spend all of their time at school in the classroom. In fact, teachers spend fewer hours actually instructing students than many recognize. Stanford's Terry Moe worked with data straight from the nation's largest teacher union's own data - and found that the average teacher in a department setting (that is, where students have different teachers for different subjects) was in the classroom for fewer than 3.9 hours out of the 7.3 hours at school each day.

The myth that teachers are underpaid is a significant hurdle to educational reform because it helps prop up the falsehood that schools in general are underfunded. In fact, taxpayers spend more money on public K-12 schools than they do on national defense, even more than the Gross Domestic Product of Russia.

Yet, despite this generous investment, student outcomes as measured by standardized tests and graduation rates have been stagnant since the Ford administration.

Just a few more facts for the left to dispute .. and try an reason away ..
 
I am wondering how those teachers will vote next election??
 
I am wondering how those teachers will vote next election??

just a guess ... but Democratic .. .the same way they have voted in the last election, the one before that .. the one before that .. and the one before that
 
Exactly, anyone who thinks our forefathers were Marxist for supporting progressive taxes, SS and Medicare that created the strongest middle class in our history, are pretty much as nutter as they get.

...and is causing the inevitable demise of freedom in our nation today. Those three things represent the roots of our destruction. They are weeds in Liberty's Garden. They should be pulled and tossed on the ash heap of history.
 
FEW cliches permeate our culture more thoroughly than that of the underpaid schoolteacher. In fact, many people would say that if they know anything about public schools it is that teachers deserve far more money than they actually get.

But the idea that teachers are underpaid is a myth. When we discard our presuppositions and look at the evidence, it turns out that teachers actually are better paid than many people realize.

As of 2002, the average salary for teachers nationwide was about $44,600. That does seem modest. But we need account for the relatively few hours that teachers actually spend working compared to other professionals.

That is, a teacher who earns $45,000 to work for nine months is clearly better paid than a nurse who gets the same salary for working 12 months.

Since teachers' work schedule distorts direct salary comparisons with other jobs, we need to look at hourly pay.

According to the U.S. Department of Labor, the average public elementary school teacher in the United States earns about $30.75 an hour. The average hourly pay of other public-service employees - such as firefighters ($17.91) or police officers ($22.64) - pales in comparison.

Indeed, teachers' hourly rate exceeds even those in professions that require far more training and expertise. Compare the schoolteacher's $30.75 to the average biologist's $28.07 an hour - or the mechanical engineer's $29.76 or the chemist's $30.68.

Whose hourly pay is competitive with that of teachers? Computer scientists ($32.86), dentists ($35.51) and even nuclear engineers ($36.16).

Note, too, that these hourly figures exclude benefits, such as health coverage and retirement accounts, which are typically more generous for government employeas teachers, than for private-sector workers.

But don't teachers spend a great deal of time grading papers and creating lesson plans while away from school? Some do - but the comparisons here are still fair - because other professionals do work away from the office, too. Engineers and computer scientists are certainly no strangers to long nights working at home.

Nor do teachers spend all of their time at school in the classroom. In fact, teachers spend fewer hours actually instructing students than many recognize. Stanford's Terry Moe worked with data straight from the nation's largest teacher union's own data - and found that the average teacher in a department setting (that is, where students have different teachers for different subjects) was in the classroom for fewer than 3.9 hours out of the 7.3 hours at school each day.

The myth that teachers are underpaid is a significant hurdle to educational reform because it helps prop up the falsehood that schools in general are underfunded. In fact, taxpayers spend more money on public K-12 schools than they do on national defense, even more than the Gross Domestic Product of Russia.

Yet, despite this generous investment, student outcomes as measured by standardized tests and graduation rates have been stagnant since the Ford administration.

Just a few more facts for the left to dispute .. and try an reason away ..

I'd be interested in the source of this article. It is not accurate to compare teachers to public servants such as police and firemen. Teachers have college degrees and many have masters degrees or more. I certainly don't mean to speak against public servants, and those who put their life in danger should earn more.

I really disagree with the amount of time this article says teacher spend in class. I've never seen a schedule like that. What I see are secondary teachers who teach 6 out of 7 class periods and have 20 minutes for lunch. During lunch they are to supervise their students while they eat.
 
You make an assumption not supported. I don't know if they do or don't. Some assume they would, but that isn't actual evidence they do.

Do you have a study that shows that children of engaged parents do better in school then parents not so engaged?

It is common sense that parents that are engaged will tend to have kids that do better in school. It is also common sense that parents that are engaged are much more likely then unengaged parents to take the time and effort to sign their kids up for a charter school. Common sense can lead you wrong at times, but i'd be interested in seeing the study that you have.
 
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