• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

VanceMack said:
Hell, if their schools were performing better, if their compensation packages were more efficient, maybe their citizens would decide to not cut at all and instead decide to increase taxes to pay for it. Citizens of Wisconsin...how about it? Getting the results you want out of education? Happy with the costs? Willing to pay more? Your state...your rules...
Click to expand...

I think in another thread once I showed that public perception on education is not equal to reality. But again, besides the point. The fact is cuts shold be aimed at the problems, and not ad hoc or regardless of where the problems are. Cutting just to be cutting is not better than spending just to be spending.
 
j-mac said:
Your right, and I apologize for the back handed insults. This really shouldn't be about teachers, but between the unions, and administrators that will hold you out there as tools for their political ends, it is hard sometimes to get the arguments absolutely right.

Now, listen, maybe if you could show me a comparison of similar careers that had similar education levels at the starting levels that are in disparity with that of teacher salaries today, then you'd have a point, but salaries have come a long way in the past 20 years...

I am only guessing here, and you don't have to respond with your actual numbers, but I am guessing that depending on the part of the country, and with your experience and education, that you are in oh, say the upper 5 digits in salary? That is pretty good when a national median salary for this country is some where around $35K....

So I ask again, how much should the average teacher make?

j-mac
Click to expand...

Thanks for your post.
I don't agree with everything the NEA does but they have done many good things for students and teachers. Sometimes, like other groups, they get more interested in "winning" and less focused on compromise and what would work.

Teacher's salaries are much better. When I started my salary was $18,000 and because my school was small the state paid part of my salary. I didn't get a raise for 5 years. Your estimate of my salary is quite high. I'll make less than $50,000 next year. While I know that's over the median you posted, I have quite a bit of education and experience. The median includes people with much less education and experience. Teachers in some states make more and some less. I work in one of the lowest paying states. I was actually fairly satisfied with my salary until the cut I mentioned earlier. The cut to that program cost many teachers $5000. I'm more bothered by the way teachers are treated. I hate that teachers are always the first target when someone decides cuts are needed. Teachers are also the first people blamed when anything is not going the way it should. Of course teachers should be held responsible for what they control, but they control so little in the educational system. We don't make policy. We certainly didn't come up with all this standardized testing.
 
The Barbarian said:
The average teacher works 180 days out of the year ... makes his/hers hourly salary .. . $30,20 before gold plated benefits .

The average income across the country is is about $41,000 for a 250 day work year or about $19.71 per hour with benefits below that of a teach .

Just the facts . . that's all
Click to expand...

Teachers work much more than their contracted hours. In addition they get training and take classes during summer break. I did the math once, I work nearly as many hours in 9 months as someone who does 40 hours a week all year.
 
Boo Radley said:
Facing $230,000 in budget cuts, Detroit Public Schools have cut 853 jobs, and the employees who stay are being forced to take a 10% pay cut in order to operate under a $1.2 billion budget proposed by their state-appointed emergency financial manager.

Released on June 23, the draft of the budget also calls for $200 million to be cut from the $327 million budget deficit through the sale of long-term bonds and an additional $48 million in purchased and contracted service cuts.
Click to expand...

hey, that IS a heckuva plan, i can see why you prefer it so

much better than what's going on in kaukauna, where class sizes have been REDUCED

and aren't we gratified to hear that most detroit's teachers, ALL of whom were pink slipped, should be returning

meanwhile, however:

Mr. Bobb, already an emergency financial manager for the struggling and shrinking public school system, is getting further authority under a measure signed into law March 17 that broadens state powers to intervene in the finances and governance of struggling municipalities and school districts. This could enable Mr. Bobb to void union contracts, sideline elected school-board members, close schools and authorize charter schools.

Mr. Bobb, appointed in 2009 by Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm and retained by Republican Gov. Rick Snyder, pledged last week to use those powers to deal decisively with the district's $327 million shortfall and its educational deficiencies. Mr. Bobb raised the possibility of making unilateral changes to the collective-bargaining agreements signed with teachers less than two years ago.

He is also expected to target seniority rights that protect longtime teachers from layoffs and give them the ability to reject certain school placements.

Mr. Bobb last month identified nearly a third of the district's schools that could be closed or turned over to private charter operators. Seventy organizations showed up at a bidder's conference hosted by the district last week to review rules for becoming an authorized charter school. Bids are due May 2. The elected school board has no official role in approving the plan.
Click to expand...

you sure know how to pick em---LOL!

GO, BOBB, GO!
 
VanceMack said:
Wisconsin cant cut their military and social security. They are doing it how they deem most appropriate. The previous group didnt do it...thats why the current group was elected.
Click to expand...

Then that administration should tell the small districts who waste money on administration to stick it and combine the districts. That would save more money than laying off teachers.


VanceMack said:
Boo...do you REALLY believe your bias isnt full on displayed in every post and thread you have entered? thats pretty comical if you actually think that. Its not spin it is reality. Its a reality that people are finally starting to wake up to. My only hope is that it isnt too late. SOME states have managed to maintain fiscal responsibility. Its a valuable lesson that MUST be learned. Personally I believe EVERY state and the fed should be bound by consitutional amendment to maintain a balanced budget. ZERO deficit spending. Additionally, kill off fed involvement in education. Its a complete waste of taxpayer dollars that can and should be better applied at the state level.
Click to expand...

You can't expect the government to do what the public doesn't do. And why is deficit spending always seen as a bad thing, no matter the results and no matter the reason. Say we get hit by a major disaster under a balance budget amendment and repairing the damages would exceed our limit. This means, the gov would again have to decide to cut or raise taxes to meet the short fall. We all now how that fight goes

j-mac said:
I am only guessing here, and you don't have to respond with your actual numbers, but I am guessing that depending on the part of the country, and with your experience and education, that you are in oh, say the upper 5 digits in salary? That is pretty good when a national median salary for this country is some where around $35K....
Click to expand...

Teachers starting salary is typically below 40k. Only teachers that have been working for 20 years, with multiple degrees, come anywhere close to triple digits and that isn't even the norm.

The Prof said:
that's peanuts

the cuts are overwhelmingly in teacher's pensions and health care

from albany to sacto, there's no stopping it

as immutable as math, made simple by scientific notation
Click to expand...

The problem is, the cuts do happen in the class room and in teacher positions. Even if the cuts are "peanuts" their impact on education as a whole is more detrimental than the savings.
 
The Prof said:
hey, that IS a heckuva plan, i can see why you prefer it so

much better than what's going on in kaukauna, where class sizes have been REDUCED

and aren't we gratified to hear that most detroit's teachers, ALL of whom were pink slipped, should be returning

meanwhile, however:



you sure know how to pick em---LOL!

GO, BOBB, GO!
Click to expand...

It is good that they shoudl be returning. But remember, you entered into a conversation where we were looking at one article, discussion limited to only what was there. Now, you could have provided something else, entered the discussion as someone civil migth and provide other information and make a comment explaining some point you might have.

Like I said, a waste of time with you. :2wave:
 
Layla_Z said:
Teachers work much more than their contracted hours. In addition they get training and take classes during summer break. I did the math once, I work nearly as many hours in 9 months as someone who does 40 hours a week all year.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Contracted people are not on an hourly wage, and most put in more hours than they would if they were on an hourly wage.
 
xpiher said:
their impact on education as a whole is more detrimental than the savings.
Click to expand...

tell it to cuomo, quinn, moombeam, rahm, malloy, omalley...
 
VanceMack said:
Comparing a federal problem to a state problem...hell of a logical fox paw there poster!
Click to expand...

Did you somehow manage to miss the connection between the economy crash and state budget problems?
 
Catawba said:
Did you somehow manage to miss the connection between the economy crash and state budget problems?
Click to expand...

What I see quite clearly is your blind and pathetic partisan wrangling in insisting that all problems must be caused by evil republicans. So...tell me chief...what have the democrats done to fix the problems?
 
Bobble heads r us... :lamo
 
Catawba said:
Did you somehow manage to miss the connection between the economy crash and state budget problems?
Click to expand...

cuomo didn't

and he has the solution:

"we have the worst business tax climate in the nation, period, our taxes are 66% higher than the national average"

"the costs of pensions are exploding... a 476% increase and its only getting worse"

"the state of new york spends too much money, it is that blunt and it is that simple"

"an unsustainable rate of growth and it has been for a long time"

"not only do we spend too much, but we get too little in return"

"the large government we have is all too often responsive to the special interests over the people"

"new yorkers are voting with their feet, two million new yorkers have left the state over the past decade"

"what does this say, it says we need radical reform, it says we need a new approach, we need a new perspective and we need it now"

"this is a fundamental realignment for the state"

"the old way wasn't working anyway, let's be honest"

"we want a government that puts the people first and not the special interests first"

"what made new york the empire state was a not a large government complex, it was a vibrant private sector that was creating great jobs"

"and that's what's going to make us the empire state again"

"at the heart of this state is business"

"we have to relearn the lesson our founders knew and we have to put up a sign that says new york is open for business, we get it, and this is going to be a business friendly state"

"we are going to have to confront the tax situation in our state, property taxes in this state are killing new yorkers, thirteen of the sixteen highest tax counties are in new york when assessed by home value"

"westchester county has the highest property taxes in the united states, nassau county has the second highest"

"it has to end, it has to end this year"

"we have to hold the line on taxes for now and reduce taxes in the future, new york has no future as the tax capital of the nation, our young people will not stay, our business will not come"

"put it simply, the people of this state simply cannot afford to pay any more taxes, period"

"we have to start with an emergency financial plan to stabilize our finances, we need to hold the line and we need to institute a wage freeze in the state of new york, we need to hold the line on taxes, we need a state spending cap and we need to close this $10 billion gap without any borrowing"

GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS | Governor Andrew M. Cuomo

have you seen his APPROVALS?

LOL!
 
Boo Radley said:
We may have to as you don't really have any of your own
Click to expand...

well, that's just stupid

of course i have no last word when it comes to the school system in detroit

but MISTER BOBB sure does, empowerd by MARTIAL LAW

to void union contracts, sideline elected board members, make unilateral changes to collective bargaining, close up to a third of the schools or open em up to bidding from private charter operators...

Boo Radley said:
Personally I prefer Detroit's choice over Milwaukee's
Click to expand...

well, good for YOU!

and even BETTER for mister BOBB!
 
Last edited:
Boo Radley said:
(CNN) -- In a budget-cutting move likely to be echoed around the country, Milwaukee Public Schools said Wednesday it will lay off 519 staff members -- including 354 teachers -- because of $84 million in state cuts and the system's efforts to control costs.

Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers - CNN.com


Cuts have consequences.
Click to expand...

How horrible! Yet we are giving tax breaks to rich, to large corporations. I just don't understand why this is being allowed to happen in our country! Why do the rich control everything and the poor and middle class pay for it? Why are people so uniformed that they are OK with letting tax breaks for new purchases of boats with a purchase price of $250,000 or more but not for paying a public teacher, firefighter or police officer?
 
The Prof said:
tell it to cuomo, quinn, moombeam, rahm, malloy, omalley...
Click to expand...

I am you partisan hack. My statement isn't party based, its fact based.
 
GoVote2012 said:
Why are people so uninformed that they are OK with letting tax breaks for new purchases of boats with a purchase price of $250,000 or more but not for paying a public teacher, firefighter or police officer?
Click to expand...

ask cuomo, brown, rahm, quinn, malloy, omalley...

the massachusetts house, the springfield house, the new jersey house...

ask bing and bobb in detroit

it's brutal in detroit
 
The only thing that will hurt the Children is more Liberal Union Teachers.

Unions are killing Education and the Economies in State after State.

Unions have out lived there usefulness and need to be band, because they use threats, coercion, and when that doesn't work, they call out the thugs.
 
VanceMack said:
What I see quite clearly is your blind and pathetic partisan wrangling in insisting that all problems must be caused by evil republicans. So...tell me chief...what have the democrats done to fix the problems?
Click to expand...

The Conservative Democrats have been part of the problem, no doubt about it. When they side with the Republicans against the country's best long term interest, they are just as guilty as the GOP. While the Democrats haven't cleaned up all the mess left by the last administration, they have made more progress than I thought was possible given the obstacle of the conservatives in both parties.

They prevented the US from slipping into another great depression, they passed legislation that has done more to lessen our dependence on foreign oil and decrease CO2 production than the last several administrations, they passed the first step in Health Care Reform, they eliminated the terrorist Bin Laden and are winding down the US wars in Afghanistan and Iraq started by the last administration, they have provided more funding for alternative energy including nuclear than any president in history, and they provided more funding for infrastructure repair than the last several administrations, and they provided better funding for the veterans upon their return from service.

All of this they accomplished despite opposition from the conservatives of both parties. A hell of a feat! :sun
 
Last edited:
Councilman said:
The only thing that will hurt the Children is more Liberal Union Teachers.

Unions are killing Education and the Economies in State after State.

Unions have out lived there usefulness and need to be band, because they use threats, coercion, and when that doesn't work, they call out the thugs.
Click to expand...

What kill education is not the existence of Unions. It a combination of broken families, broken communities, apathy, poor teach practices, and mismanaged budgets with excesses in both administrative cost and, in some cases, non-salary benefits. Case in point, the supposed savior of education, the self managed school (charters), has about the same failure rate as the publicly managed school when everything else is equal.
 
Catawba said:
The Conservative Democrats have been part of the problem, no doubt about it. When they side with the Republicans against the countries best long term interest, they are just as guilty. While the Democrats haven't cleaned up all the mess left by the last administration, they have made more progress than I thought was possible given the obstacle of the conservatives in both parties.

They prevented the US from slipping into another great depression, they passed legislation that has done more to lessen our dependence on foreign oil and decrease CO2 production than the last several administrations, they passed the first step in Health Care Reform, they eliminated the terrorist Bin Laden and are winding down the US wars in Afghanistan and Iraq started by the last administration, they have provided more funding for alternative energy including nuclear than any president in history, and they provided more funding for infrastructure repair than the last several administrations, and they provided better funding for the veterans upon their return from service.

All of this they accomplished despite opposition from the conservatives of both parties. A hell of a feat! :sun
Click to expand...

Right...so...another one of 'those guys'. Only liberalism and continuing to spend trillions and trillions of money we dont have can 'save' us.

Good lord...its like a parody of a really really over the top slant on liberals come to life...
 
The Prof said:
but cuomo just answered you

in expansive eloquence
Click to expand...

And how does that change the fact that the purposed fixes to education aren't tackling the root problems of failure and expense listed above and earlier in this thread?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom