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Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

VanceMack said:
The people elected by the people, as a result of the previous people.
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Well, we do elect representaites, and I agree they act for us. But let's not forget they can make mistakes, and even not do what we would like.

But I did ask a few more questions there.
 
Boo Radley said:
This is regardless of profession j:

Salary.com's calculations for 2003 placed bachelor's degree holders at an average salary of $43,000, and master's degree holders at $53,000 (see earnings chart below).

Salary | Learning | A Higher Degree the Key to Higher Pay?

Those with a master's teaching here make about 42-45K a year. So someone is making more. ;)
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What? 2003? My god man, that is nearly a decade ago....Why not use numbers from 1950? they would be just as irrelevant.

But even if I were to use your numbers, the disparity is less than $135.00 per week. I'd say that is pretty close to the ball park, however I think when you add in pensions, and calculate for summer months off, you come out ahead of other professions.

j-mac
 
Boo Radley said:
Well, we do elect Representatives, and I agree they act for us. But let's not forget they can make mistakes, and even not do what we would like.

But I did ask a few more questions there.
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Obviously LOTS of people have made mistakes which is why responsible grownup type people have to make responsible grown up type decisions that people hate. Wouldst that we could forever be irresponsible and never worry about paying for things.

Yes...you asked LOTS of questions. Schools exist to educate. They don't exist to fix communities or compensate for failed families or irresponsible parents. Communities should be involved with their families, schools should exist to provide educational opportunities. They aren't little temporary orphanages were poor unfortunate souls are houses, clothed, and fed. Thats why things have gotten so screwed up in the first place. Schools should TEACH...not socially transform...not teach social programs and values. Reading, writing, English, math, history, science. Those that excel progress. Those that don't do not continue to pollute the educational experience for others. How each school district evaluates their teachers should be up to them.
 
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Boo Radley said:
This is regardless of profession j:

Salary.com's calculations for 2003 placed bachelor's degree holders at an average salary of $43,000, and master's degree holders at $53,000 (see earnings chart below).

Salary | Learning | A Higher Degree the Key to Higher Pay?

Those with a master's teaching here make about 42-45K a year. So someone is making more. ;)
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The average teacher works 180 days out of the year ... makes his/hers hourly salary .. . $30,20 before gold plated benefits .

The average income across the country is is about $41,000 for a 250 day work year or about $19.71 per hour with benefits below that of a teach .

Just the facts . . that's all
 
VanceMack said:
Obviously LOTS of people have made mistakes which is why responsible grownup type people have to make responsible grown up type decisions that people hate. Wouldst that we could forever be irrresponsible and never worry about paying for things.
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No one suggests we should never worry about paying for things. Nor do I see what is being done as grown up. When you do things without seeking to find the best answers, to protect what matters most, whioe still be fiscally responsible, you are not being the grown up.

Yes...you asked LOTS of questions. Schools exist to educate. They dont exist to fix communities or compensate for failed families or irresponsible parents. Communties should be involved with their families, schools should exist to provide educational opportunities. They arent little temporary orphanages where poor unfortunate souls are houses, clothed, and fed. tahts why things have gotten so screwed up in the first place. Schools should TEACH...not socially transform...not teach social programs and values. Reading, writing, english, math, history, science. Those that excel progress. Those that dont do not continue to pollute the educational experience for others. How each schol district evaluates their teachers should be up to them.
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Not asking that they fix communities. I'm asking of you can expect the same results. No one suggests they shouldn't know their subject matter or not try to pass that knowledge on. Wouodln't it be better to address what I actually asked?
 
The Barbarian said:
The average teacher works 180 days out of the year ... makes his/hers hourly salary .. . $30,20 before gold plated benefits .

The average income across the country is is about $41,000 for a 250 day work year or about $19.71 per hour with benefits below that of a teach .

Just the facts . . that's all
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The teacher is paid for nine months. Some have that doled out to them over 12 months, others over 9 months. But the salery is based on and for teaching 9 months. this is no different than any other saleried position in that the hours are not the criteria for the pay.

Also, to change that youn would have to do something else unpopular among the public, and would be year long school. Kind of silly to blame teachers for the conditions that they don't set.

As for the facts, the fact is their salery is not in any way eccessive. It falls right in line, even slightly below, the average. Remember, your average includes people without a degree.
 
Boo Radley said:
No one suggests we should never worry about paying for things. Nor do I see what is being done as grown up. When you do things without seeking to find the best answers, to protect what matters most, whioe still be fiscally responsible, you are not being the grown up.



Not asking that they fix communities. I'm asking of you can expect the same results. No one suggests they shouldn't know their subject matter or not try to pass that knowledge on. Wouodln't it be better to address what I actually asked?
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On the contrary...the left is throwing quite the temper tantrum preciely because grown up solutions are being imposed. And its silly to expect the 'same results'. Each community is different. YoU CAN expect to see positive growth and change, not continually accept and except downward spirraling failure. At the current rate they might as well board up the schools and put the money into better and bigger prisons.
 
Boo Radley said:
the fact is their salery is not in any way eccessive. It falls right in line, even slightly below, the average.
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not for people working 181 days per year

you're a dept chair and you can't spell salary and excessive

LOL!

read much?
 
VanceMack said:
On the contrary...the left is throwing quite the temper tantrum preciely because grown up solutions are being imposed. And its silly to expect the 'same results'. Each community is different. YoU CAN expect to see positive growth and change, not continually accept and except downward spirraling failure. At the current rate they might as well board up the schools and put the money into better and bigger prisons.
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No, That is your spin, your world view, bais if you will. You can tell whenever some one uses words like left or right, their language betrays them.

The debate is on what people value. Few believe there are no budget issues to deal with. There are many who don't trust Walker, and who aren't as willing to say teachers should be attacked as they have been. yes, some believe they deserve very good benefits. But that is not equal to saying they not concerned about budget issues, or that they are not grown up. Sure, both sides have their children. But both have their adults as well. The debate is not should we address the budget issues, but how best to address it.
 
Boo Radley said:
If I teach in a wealthy school with concerned parents, students with full stomachs and good homes, is my job expectation the same as a teacher who teaches in a poor neighborhood, with drugs, and violence, and poor parents, hunger issues, safety issues? How do you measure both equally?
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Sadly it seems that many uninvolved with education don't have any recognition of that distinction whatsoever.
 
Boo Radley said:
No, That is your spin, your world view, bais if you will. You can tell whenever some one uses words like left or right, their language betrays them.

The debate is on what people value. Few believe there are no budget issues to deal with. There are many who don't trust Walker, and who aren't as willing to say teachers should be attacked as they have been. yes, some believe they deserve very good benefits. But that is not equal to saying they not concerned about budget issues, or that they are not grown up. Sure, both sides have their children. But both have their adults as well. The debate is not should we address the budget issues, but how best to address it.
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Boo...do you REALLY believe your bias isnt full on displayed in every post and thread you have entered? thats pretty comical if you actually think that. Its not spin it is reality. Its a reality that people are finally starting to wake up to. My only hope is that it isnt too late. SOME states have managed to maintain fiscal responsibility. Its a valuable lesson that MUST be learned. Personally I believe EVERY state and the fed should be bound by consitutional amendment to maintain a balanced budget. ZERO deficit spending. Additionally, kill off fed involvement in education. Its a complete waste of taxpayer dollars that can and should be better applied at the state level.
 
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VanceMack said:
Its not spin it is reality. Its a reality that people are finally starting to wake up to. My only hope is that it isnt too late. SOME states have managed to maintain fiscal responsibility. Its a valuable lesson that MUST be learned. Personally I believe EVERY state and the fed should be bound by consitutional amendment to maintain a balanced budget. ZERO deficit spending. Additionally, kill off fed involvement in education. Its a complete waste of taxpayer dollars that can and should be better applied at the state level.
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I don't know. I hear from a lot of unhappy people regularly. However, that is besides the point.

Again, the issue is not whether we should be cncerned about the budget. The debate is on how to accomplish it.
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't know. I hear from a lot of unhappy people regularly. However, that is besides the point.

Again, the issue is not whether we should be cncerned about the budget. The debate is on how to accomplish it.
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Wisconsin cant cut their military and social security. They are doing it how they deem most appropriate. The previous group didnt do it...thats why the current group was elected.
 
VanceMack said:
****in wothless Republican...who does he think he is cutting spending...
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Just for the record, even though I know the prof will never understand, who said only republicans make msitakes? Aren't you merely playing to a sterotype here?
 
VanceMack said:
Wisconsin cant cut their military and social security. They are doing it how they deem most appropriate. The previous group didnt do it...thats why the current group was elected.
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Education is not all that is their budget. And they can target things better. And because another group didn't do something doesn't make everythign this group does OK.
 
Deregulate the banking and energy markets so that the economy crashes and then cut education funding to try to make up the slack.
Hell of a plan there GOPhers!!! :sun
 
Boo Radley said:
And because another group didn't do something doesn't make everythign this group does OK.
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and the fact that mister bobb pink slipped EVERY teacher in detroit...

LOL!
 
Boo Radley said:
Education is not all that is their budget. And they can target things better. And because another group didn't do something doesn't make everythign this group does OK.
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Hell, if their schools were performing better, if their compensation packages were more efficient, maybe their citizens would decide to not cut at all and instead decide to increase taxes to pay for it. Citizens of Wisconsin...how about it? Getting the results you want out of education? Happy with the costs? Willing to pay more? Your state...your rules...
 
Catawba said:
Deregulate the banking and energy markets so that the economy crashes and then cut education funding to try to make up the slack.
Hell of a plan there GOPhers!!! :sun
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Comparing a federal problem to a state problem...hell of a logical fox paw there poster!
 
Catawba said:
cut education funding to try to make up the slack
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California budget: Democrats pass austerity budget - Los Angeles Times

Cuomo budget: $10 billion deficit cut, no new taxes, layoffs likely

Jerry Brown Budget Cuts | California budget: Gov. Jerry Brown approves cuts to services for poor, sick and elderly - Los Angeles Times

MA House votes to restrict unions - Boston.com

New Jersey Assembly Passes Bill That Requires Public Workers' Unions To Pay More For Benefits - WPIX

Emanuel Unveils Major Budget Cut On First Full Day « CBS Chicago

Governor Pat Quinn signs Illinois education reform bill into law, new rules effect school days, teacher strikes, tenure | abc7chicago.com

Detroit Moves Against Unions - WSJ.com

Union Deal Defeated; Gov. Malloy Pledges To Cut State Workers - CTnow
 
The Prof said:
and the fact that mister bobb pink slipped EVERY teacher in detroit...

LOL!
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I realize it is useless to speak to you, but try to keep up:

Facing $230,000 in budget cuts, Detroit Public Schools have cut 853 jobs, and the employees who stay are being forced to take a 10% pay cut in order to operate under a $1.2 billion budget proposed by their state-appointed emergency financial manager.

Released on June 23, the draft of the budget also calls for $200 million to be cut from the $327 million budget deficit through the sale of long-term bonds and an additional $48 million in purchased and contracted service cuts.

However, according to Roy Roberts, the district’s financial manager, most of the 4,400 teaching positions will be spared. Instead, there will be cuts in school administrators, clerical and professional staff, counselors, teacher aides, and central office supervisors.

Teacher World » Milwaukee and Detroit Public Schools’ Budget Cuts Announced

Now, if Detriot focused more on School administrators and other staff, leaving teachers in the classroom, which would not increase class size as much, I prefer this over cutting 354 teachers and not school administrators.

Now, I know you won't try to understand, or even consider thinking about it, hence the waste of time, but lord your act gets old.

:2wave:
 
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