• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

haymarket said:
A far right wing plan to weaken and possible destroy the working class in America gets support from far right extremists who share those far right goals.
Click to expand...

California budget: Democrats pass austerity budget - Los Angeles Times

Cuomo budget: $10 billion deficit cut, no new taxes, layoffs likely

Jerry Brown Budget Cuts | California budget: Gov. Jerry Brown approves cuts to services for poor, sick and elderly - Los Angeles Times

MA House votes to restrict unions - Boston.com

New Jersey Assembly Passes Bill That Requires Public Workers' Unions To Pay More For Benefits - WPIX

Emanuel Unveils Major Budget Cut On First Full Day « CBS Chicago

Governor Pat Quinn signs Illinois education reform bill into law, new rules effect school days, teacher strikes, tenure | abc7chicago.com

Detroit Moves Against Unions - WSJ.com

Union Deal Defeated; Gov. Malloy Pledges To Cut State Workers - CTnow
 
Boo Radley said:
j-mac said:
J, we're talking about someone who uses the word Marxist. Seriously, this is not valid or honest discourse. And it is dishonest no matter who uses it.



J, if you believe both are required you argue for both. Has nothing to do with belief.




J, you can't be serious or siginificant if you use terms like Marxist and communism. There is no way around that. It is unoriginal and silly to go down that old worn down path. Sorry.
Click to expand...

Says you....But then again who are you?

j-mac
Click to expand...
 
Boo Radley said:
(CNN) -- In a budget-cutting move likely to be echoed around the country, Milwaukee Public Schools said Wednesday it will lay off 519 staff members -- including 354 teachers -- because of $84 million in state cuts and the system's efforts to control costs.

Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers - CNN.com

Cuts have consequences.
Click to expand...

Sucks for the students and in turn, the future of the country. They should cut funding for testing instead, that would be more productive.
 
theplaydrive said:
Sucks for the students and in turn, the future of the country. They should cut funding for testing instead, that would be more productive.
Click to expand...

Heck, why not just graduate these kids at the 8th grade, and do away with high school all together....Everyone knows that this is what collages are for....heh, heh....

j-mac
 
theplaydrive said:
Sucks for the students and in turn, the future of the country.
Click to expand...

no, quite the contrary

in kaukuana, thanks to mature and sober planning, the kids in the classroom have remained untouched as the district's huge deficits turn instantly into surpluses

teachers started kicking in to their health care and pensions, the district became freed up to look for better coverage, teachers teach 6 classes instead of 5, work an extra 2.5 hours per week...

class size in kaukauna is going DOWN

and as for the future of the country, these days it's bottom line

plans, anyone?

solutions?

argumentation?
 
Last edited:
j-mac said:
Funny, I only read you talking at me.

j-mac
Click to expand...

Yep. I am at least one of the people talking to you. But, when you spew terms that don't aplly, like Marxist and communism, as nothing done meets the defintion of those terms, you cannot expect to be taken seriously. Sorry. :coffeepap
 
Boo Radley said:
Yep. I am at least one of the people talking to you. But, when you spew terms that don't aplly, like Marxist and communism, as nothing done meets the defintion of those terms, you cannot expect to be taken seriously. Sorry. :coffeepap
Click to expand...


Have you ever read the Communist Manefesto? Me thinks not, otherwise you'd never make these foolish statements.

j-mac
 
Overall, how do reduce class size by cutting teachers? Explain.
Click to expand...

Answer please.
Click to expand...

The districts that planned, aren't cutting teachers. Instead they are adding teachers in addition to giving an extra class to the teachers, resulting in reduced class sizes.

Districts that wanted to protect the unions and ignore reality are having to cut teachers. You'll have to talk to them to find out why they made the decisions they made.

However, the reduced teachers and increased class sizes (in the case of MPS) will only be for 2 years. in 2 years when the contract they (incredulously) signed expires, they will be able to reduce class sizes again.
 
Erod said:
When those federal dollars dry up, they dry up. Shame on states for relying on it so much.

What's truly sad is that there is no need to cut teachers. It's the school administration staff that is vastly overbloated. Layers and layers of bureacracy that do nothing, but of course, their jobs won't be sacrificed, just the teachers.
Click to expand...

Yes but that wouldn't scare taxpayers into begging to pay more taxes to support more bloat. When there are cuts Democrats must turn off street lights, fire teachers, fire police, fire fire fighters and stop filling pot holes. How else will they thug more money out of the citizenry?
 
Hicup said:
So too does mismanagement of public funds.


Tim-
Click to expand...

When are public funds NOT mismanaged? The government can't even tie its own shoes half the time without falling on its face. The American education system is a complete failure. Look, everyone wants to see teachers get paid, but the fact is that we in America go about education backasswards. We try to give EVERYONE college educations, and we force broad educational programs down kids throats that are not retained or built upon.

I'm not a huge fan of European policy by any means, but the school systems are right. We need to stop wasting time and money by throwing kids into courses that they will never use or pursue. Anyone who has ever taken trig knows what I am talking about. I took everything I could in High School- including advanced math courses, and then went to college and pursued a degree in Political Science. To this day I have no idea how to do calculus or trig- because I don't need to know how. I studied to pass the tests and then moved on. For the state, those two courses were a waste of money- we do this over and over again in our schools!

Instead of fostering and encouraging the pursuit of natural skill and ability, we force this general education garbage at our kids and make them pursue everything. I'm not saying that some level of general education isn't necessary in order for kids to discover their natural ability, but I am saying that a junior in high school should have a pretty good feel for what they are pursing in life- whether it be vocational, collegiate math and sciences, or collegiate arts. Specialization is the key to cutting costs in appropriate areas and fostering recurring generations of Americans that are highly skilled laborers. Quit spending money of frivolous gen-ed courses and start truly educating a specialized workforce. Its the key to everything.
 
Boo Radley said:
How about having a real plan to address those issues?
Click to expand...

You know, all I really want is proof positive that our education system is serving our kids then neither myself or many other people would be complaining so much about the cost. I am sure things need to be simplified. I think we need more alternative schooling within the system, and I mean separate schools that help kids that get lost in these large schools, mind numbing bureaucracies, block scheduling and 90 minute classes. I think a lot of kids would benefit from a simpler approach with more teachers in the classroom and less people shuffiling papers.
 
Boo Radley said:
Apparently not, no. :coffeepap
Click to expand...

Kinda of passing along mis information are you boo ... as I believe there are still unions in Wisconsin aren't there ??? Glad to see you manage to get off the high road .. and down in the gutter of lies as well .
 
The Prof said:
no, quite the contrary

in kaukuana, thanks to mature and sober planning, the kids in the classroom have remained untouched as the district's huge deficits turn instantly into surpluses

teachers started kicking in to their health care and pensions, the district became freed up to look for better coverage, teachers teach 6 classes instead of 5, work an extra 2.5 hours per week...

class size in kaukauna is going DOWN

and as for the future of the country, these days it's bottom line

plans, anyone?

solutions?

argumentation?
Click to expand...

Hey Prof .. you might just as well give up on this .. it doesn't fit in with the unwaivering need to trash Walker and Republicans …. where ever and when ever there is a success story … Liberals will deny or ignore it ..

you just have to accept the only plan that works .. is to tax and spend .. that is the only fix they have ever known .. and the only fix they will ever know.
 
The Barbarian said:
Hey Prof .. you might just as well give up on this .. it doesn't fit in with the unwaivering need to trash Walker and Republicans …. where ever and when ever there is a success story … Liberals will deny or ignore it ..

you just have to accept the only plan that works .. is to tax and spend .. that is the only fix they have ever known .. and the only fix they will ever know.
Click to expand...

No, it doesn't address the complaint, the objection. Now, he or you could try and do that, which would be a nice change.
 
The Barbarian said:
Kinda of passing along mis information are you boo ... as I believe there are still unions in Wisconsin aren't there ??? Glad to see you manage to get off the high road .. and down in the gutter of lies as well .
Click to expand...

I don't believe we said there wasn't. The comment was more along the lines of the effort was suppose to keep teacher jobs. This was not done.
 
jambalaya said:
You know, all I really want is proof positive that our education system is serving our kids then neither myself or many other people would be complaining so much about the cost. I am sure things need to be simplified. I think we need more alternative schooling within the system, and I mean separate schools that help kids that get lost in these large schools, mind numbing bureaucracies, block scheduling and 90 minute classes. I think a lot of kids would benefit from a simpler approach with more teachers in the classroom and less people shuffiling papers.
Click to expand...

Again, then fight for something that address that. If you were, if Walker was, you would find far less objection from me. But less teachers means more students in a classroom. It can't be otherwise. Cutting just to cut is no more wise than spending just to spend.
 
buck said:
The districts that planned, aren't cutting teachers. Instead they are adding teachers in addition to giving an extra class to the teachers, resulting in reduced class sizes.

Districts that wanted to protect the unions and ignore reality are having to cut teachers. You'll have to talk to them to find out why they made the decisions they made.

However, the reduced teachers and increased class sizes (in the case of MPS) will only be for 2 years. in 2 years when the contract they (incredulously) signed expires, they will be able to reduce class sizes again.
Click to expand...

First, thanks for answering the question. This was a decent answer. I appreciate that.

Now, this again seems up to districts, if you're correct. Which is a little to ad hoc to be a very good plan, imho. Secondly, two years of overcrowded classrooms isn't a plus.


Millions of public school students across the nation are seeing their class sizes swell because of budget cuts and teacher layoffs, undermining a decades-long push by parents, administrators and policy makers to shrink class sizes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/07/education/07classrooms.html

“When you have a class size that’s even 40, it’s too large,” Kobaissi said. “You can never really get to each student and find out their needs and weaknesses. Oftentimes, with a class like 56, it’s hard even to be personal enough to memorize all their names.”

Teacher layoffs raise class-size tensions | Tihik.Com News

Class sizes will more than likely increase since the layoffs include 354 teachers, and students will undoubtedly be using old textbooks, according to Superintendent Gregory Thornton.

These drastic cuts are a result of Gov. Scott Walker’s two-year budget plan which was signed on Sunday. This plan cut spending to schools by approximately $200 less per student. With roughly 82,000 students attending Milwaukee Public Schools, this plan cut $182,000 from their district’s budget.

Ouch, right? The sad truth is that these kinds of cuts are occurring everywhere in our nation. Let’s look at Detroit where they face the same difficult dilemma but were able to find an alternative to laying off teachers.

Teacher World » Milwaukee and Detroit Public Schools’ Budget Cuts Announced
 
buck said:
The districts that planned, aren't cutting teachers. Instead they are adding teachers in addition to giving an extra class to the teachers, resulting in reduced class sizes.

Districts that wanted to protect the unions and ignore reality are having to cut teachers. You'll have to talk to them to find out why they made the decisions they made.

However, the reduced teachers and increased class sizes (in the case of MPS) will only be for 2 years. in 2 years when the contract they (incredulously) signed expires, they will be able to reduce class sizes again.
Click to expand...

First, thanks for answering the question. This was a decent answer. I appreciate that.

Now, this again seems up to districts, if you're correct. Which is a little to ad hoc to be a very good plan, imho. Secondly, two years of overcrowded classrooms isn't a plus.


Millions of public school students across the nation are seeing their class sizes swell because of budget cuts and teacher layoffs, undermining a decades-long push by parents, administrators and policy makers to shrink class sizes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/07/education/07classrooms.html

“When you have a class size that’s even 40, it’s too large,” Kobaissi said. “You can never really get to each student and find out their needs and weaknesses. Oftentimes, with a class like 56, it’s hard even to be personal enough to memorize all their names.”

Teacher layoffs raise class-size tensions | Tihik.Com News

Class sizes will more than likely increase since the layoffs include 354 teachers, and students will undoubtedly be using old textbooks, according to Superintendent Gregory Thornton.

These drastic cuts are a result of Gov. Scott Walker’s two-year budget plan which was signed on Sunday. This plan cut spending to schools by approximately $200 less per student. With roughly 82,000 students attending Milwaukee Public Schools, this plan cut $182,000 from their district’s budget.

Ouch, right? The sad truth is that these kinds of cuts are occurring everywhere in our nation. Let’s look at Detroit where they face the same difficult dilemma but were able to find an alternative to laying off teachers.

Teacher World » Milwaukee and Detroit Public Schools’ Budget Cuts Announced
 
Boo Radley said:
No, it doesn't address the complaint, the objection. Now, he or you could try and do that, which would be a nice change.
Click to expand...

okay you go first for a change .. how do you account for other districts "not laying off teachers" and one district going from a deficit .. to a surplus under Walkers plan ?
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't believe we said there wasn't. The comment was more along the lines of the effort was suppose to keep teacher jobs. This was not done.
Click to expand...

Oh really ??? here is exactly what was said ..

"Didn't the Wisconsin governor bust up unions to prevent thse types of cuts? "

your reply "Apparently not, no "

Now what union was busted .. . gonna answer . . or continue with your lies ..
 
The Barbarian said:
Oh really ??? here is exactly what was said ..

"Didn't the Wisconsin governor bust up unions to prevent thse types of cuts? "

your reply "Apparently not, no "

Now what union was busted .. . gonna answer . . or continue with your lies ..
Click to expand...

Busted up doesn't mean gone. They took a beating. They were busted up. Teacher jobs have been lost.
 
The Barbarian said:
okay you go first for a change .. how do you account for other districts "not laying off teachers" and one district going from a deficit .. to a surplus under Walkers plan ?
Click to expand...

You might want to read my answer to Buck. I would expect a plan not to leave it up to districts to decide, as that is not a plan but passing the buck. If it leaves us with any district cutting teachers and thus increasing class size, we have failed to have a proper plan.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom