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Thread: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

  1. #361
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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    social security accounted ONE POINT FOUR TRILLION dollars of ADDITIONAL unfunded liability in the year two thousand ten ALONE
    You are mistaken, that is the amount that has been taken from SS to provide the tax cuts for the rich. It is the tax cuts that have been and are the unfunded liability.



    as if the far right (LOL!) is responsible for the DETROIT PUBLIC SCHOOLS
    It is the far-right that created the recession that resulted in the state's lack of revenues.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    that is the amount that has been taken from SS to provide the tax cuts for the rich
    you don't know what you're talking about

    The federal government's financial condition deteriorated rapidly last year, far beyond the $1.5 trillion in new debt taken on to finance the budget deficit, a USA TODAY analysis shows.

    The government added $5.3 trillion in new financial obligations in 2010, largely for retirement programs such as Medicare and Social Security.

    Social Security added $1.4 trillion in obligations, partly reflecting longer life expectancies.
    U.S. funding for future promises lags by trillions - USATODAY.com

    61.6T and counting, doubling every ten years

    It is the far-right that created the recession that resulted in the state's lack of revenues.
    oh, absolutely

    it's the far right that totally destroyed DETROIT

    LOL!

  3. #363
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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    Wikipedia is not a reliable source. I did read about him and I don't see why he thinks he's an expert because he's not.
    you have someone better Qualified to dispute what he says ?

  4. #364
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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    you have someone better Qualified to dispute what he says ?
    There are many differing opinions out there. I don't think a degree in political science qualifies someone to be an expert in education. The conclusions he draws from a few facts do not match my experience in education. His conclusions about how much time teachers spend teaching seems especially off, but maybe that is true some places. All we can do is read what people say, look at their qualifications, examine potential bias, and form an opinion. My opinion is that he is wrong.

    As I've said before, my concerns are less with pay and more with how teachers are treated. I , and I would guess most teachers, knew that we'd never get rich teaching. Would I like to make more and do I think I deserve more? Of course, who doesn't. What is more important to me is that teachers stop being the target for everyone, especially legislatures, and stop being the first place cuts are made. I understand that in these economic times we all have to sacrifice and that I am lucky to have a job. But, for a personal example, I took a $5000 pay cut last year and I have to decide whether to continue to do the work with students that money was paying for or to stop doing the work for free. How is that situation good for the students?

    I thought this was interesting. Our problems and concerns are not new.
    Education: Underpaid Teachers - TIME
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  5. #365
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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    There are many differing opinions out there. I don't think a degree in political science qualifies someone to be an expert in education. The conclusions he draws from a few facts do not match my experience in education. His conclusions about how much time teachers spend teaching seems especially off, but maybe that is true some places. All we can do is read what people say, look at their qualifications, examine potential bias, and form an opinion. My opinion is that he is wrong.

    As I've said before, my concerns are less with pay and more with how teachers are treated. I , and I would guess most teachers, knew that we'd never get rich teaching. Would I like to make more and do I think I deserve more? Of course, who doesn't. What is more important to me is that teachers stop being the target for everyone, especially legislatures, and stop being the first place cuts are made. I understand that in these economic times we all have to sacrifice and that I am lucky to have a job. But, for a personal example, I took a $5000 pay cut last year and I have to decide whether to continue to do the work with students that money was paying for or to stop doing the work for free. How is that situation good for the students?

    I thought this was interesting. Our problems and concerns are not new.
    Education: Underpaid Teachers - TIME

    It's not good for the students … and it's not good for you … I apologize for the crudeness of some of my comments towards you I'm use to dealing with boo ….

    My feeling are we have some serious problems with our educational system. I'm just tire of politicians from each side .. not looking to find the problems and thinking that if we just throw more money at it .. everything will fix its self ..

    I have no problem with teachers, I do have a problem with the unions they belong to, because in my opinion they are part of the problem. They look out for the unions first .. the teachers second, and the students last.
    The government isn't much better .. they have given into union demands time and time again .. using the benefits to push the problem with budgets down the road .. until quite frankly it has become unsustainable..... the time of reckoning now has arrived ... cuts have to be made … and not surprisingly those that it effects thinks they are wrong .. Not much is different on the federal level, everyone agree we must cut spending, but no one wants those cuts that effects them.

    What is being debated here lately … is who to blame .. (thats wrong to begin with) but the simple fact is, the person making those cuts is no more or less to blame .. then the people who actually take those cuts and implement them. In the case of Wisconsin one district decided to lay off teaches .. and they get the public forum pointing the finger at Walker … while the 100's of other districts seem to manage those cuts without layoffs … get no ink. Why is that ? IMO it's purely political ..

    Just as a side note .. you do realize that the article you are referring to was posted in 1949 don't you ?
    Last edited by The Barbarian; 07-08-11 at 11:13 AM.

  6. #366
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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    i make 78,000 for a hundred and eighty one days of exactly two hundred minutes of instruction

    i haven't taken a paper of work home in decades

    i correct tests while the next class is testing, i can correct a math test in less than 30 seconds

    entering data takes longer for me than correcting papers

    i have taught hi school english, however, and that's a different animal---still, a veteran english teacher, dena l*******, to whom i am still greatly indebted, taught me how to correct an essay in less than two minutes

    however, correcting essays---several hours of reading the worst and most boring writing imaginable---it actually depressed me

    i've taught history too---other than the story telling, a piece of cake

    if i could do it all again i'd go pe---shoot hoops forever

    i paid off my house when i was 51, i've got money coming out my ears with nothing to do with it

    i have no commute

    most veteran teachers i work with here in northern california are equally well set, quite a few with estates, before housing crashed, approaching a mil

    fat 401k's on top of our over-generous pensions which will never be paid as promised

    beautiful summers, glorious summers---lots of roses, home improvement and european travel

    a great deal of retirement talk in circles of older teachers

    that's my experience

    my heart, sincerely, aches for these young teachers, so many in upside down houses, young families, getting their pink slips on march 15

    pray for this country

    stay up
    Last edited by The Prof; 07-08-11 at 11:31 AM.

  7. #367
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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    It's not good for the students … and it's not good for you … I apologize for the crudeness of some of my comments towards you I'm use to dealing with boo ….

    My feeling are we have some serious problems with our educational system. I'm just tire of politicians from each side .. not looking to find the problems and thinking that if we just throw more money at it .. everything will fix its self ..

    I have no problem with teachers, I do have a problem with the unions they belong to, because in my opinion they are part of the problem. They look out for the unions first .. the teachers second, and the students last.
    The government isn't much better .. they have given into union demands time and time again .. using the benefits to push the problem with budgets down the road .. until quite frankly it has become unsustainable..... the time of reckoning now has arrived ... cuts have to be made … and not surprisingly those that it effects thinks they are wrong .. Not much is different on the federal level, everyone agree we must cut spending, but no one wants those cuts that effects them.

    What is being debated here lately … is who to blame .. (thats wrong to begin with) but the simple fact is, the person making those cuts is no more or less to blame .. then the people who actually take those cuts and implement them. In the case of Wisconsin one district decided to lay off teaches .. and they get the public forum pointing the finger at Walker … while the 100's of other districts seem to manage those cuts without layoffs … get no ink. Why is that ? IMO it's purely political ..

    Just as a side note .. you do realize that the article you are referring to was posted in 1949 don't you ?
    Thanks for your post. I agree with much of what you say. I'm not a huge fan of the NEA but teachers do need someone advocating for them. I like the state organization I am in. They do political work advocating for teachers and students but not collective bargaining. We pay dues, but not nearly as much as NEA dues. All of the teachers I know are in it and not in a union.

    Yes, I know the article is from 1949. I was surprised that it came up, but that is why I thought it was interesting. If you didn't see the date and the salaries weren't so low, it could have been written today.
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
    ~I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    ~If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
    George Carlin

  8. #368
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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    Thanks for your post. I agree with much of what you say. I'm not a huge fan of the NEA but teachers do need someone advocating for them. I like the state organization I am in. They do political work advocating for teachers and students but not collective bargaining. We pay dues, but not nearly as much as NEA dues. All of the teachers I know are in it and not in a union.

    Yes, I know the article is from 1949. I was surprised that it came up, but that is why I thought it was interesting. If you didn't see the date and the salaries weren't so low, it could have been written today.
    Then I would like to hear more about the organization you are it … because it sounds like something that more states need to adopt ..

    As per the article .. thats not quite true . Teachers pay has risen to where they are more on par with the average wage of workers .. now I'm sure that differs in different parts of the country, and as I said .. I don't have a problem with wages at all, teachers should be well paid for what they do, what seems to be the main problem is the insurance and retirement that they get … at least those in unions. As has been mentioned various times before this things amount to 2.5 trillion dollars of debt for the states. I'm not sure about you … but I have trouble wrapping my mind around such a number.

    I would like to thank you for your post too, if more people that carried the title of liberal were like you, we could have sane and sensible discussions about the problems we face …course we would have to get the conservatives to tone it down also.

  9. #369
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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, then fight for something that address that. If you were, if Walker was, you would find far less objection from me. But less teachers means more students in a classroom. It can't be otherwise. Cutting just to cut is no more wise than spending just to spend.
    I don't know if you noticed but they did also close nine schools. That accounts for some of the teachers. I didn't see any statistics on enrollment but that has an affect on how many teachers you need. Curriculum changes could mean a need for less teachers and probably other factors we are not considering. It could be possible that they just didn't need those teachers.

  10. #370
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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    I don't know if you noticed but they did also close nine schools. That accounts for some of the teachers. I didn't see any statistics on enrollment but that has an affect on how many teachers you need. Curriculum changes could mean a need for less teachers and probably other factors we are not considering. It could be possible that they just didn't need those teachers.
    Possible but not likely. And I do believe one of the articles we have here siad class size would increase. I'll search later when I have more time.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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