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Thread: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

  1. #321
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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    I am wondering how those teachers will vote next election??

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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    I am wondering how those teachers will vote next election??
    just a guess ... but Democratic .. .the same way they have voted in the last election, the one before that .. the one before that .. and the one before that

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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Exactly, anyone who thinks our forefathers were Marxist for supporting progressive taxes, SS and Medicare that created the strongest middle class in our history, are pretty much as nutter as they get.
    ...and is causing the inevitable demise of freedom in our nation today. Those three things represent the roots of our destruction. They are weeds in Liberty's Garden. They should be pulled and tossed on the ash heap of history.

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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    FEW cliches permeate our culture more thoroughly than that of the underpaid schoolteacher. In fact, many people would say that if they know anything about public schools it is that teachers deserve far more money than they actually get.

    But the idea that teachers are underpaid is a myth. When we discard our presuppositions and look at the evidence, it turns out that teachers actually are better paid than many people realize.

    As of 2002, the average salary for teachers nationwide was about $44,600. That does seem modest. But we need account for the relatively few hours that teachers actually spend working compared to other professionals.

    That is, a teacher who earns $45,000 to work for nine months is clearly better paid than a nurse who gets the same salary for working 12 months.

    Since teachers' work schedule distorts direct salary comparisons with other jobs, we need to look at hourly pay.

    According to the U.S. Department of Labor, the average public elementary school teacher in the United States earns about $30.75 an hour. The average hourly pay of other public-service employees - such as firefighters ($17.91) or police officers ($22.64) - pales in comparison.

    Indeed, teachers' hourly rate exceeds even those in professions that require far more training and expertise. Compare the schoolteacher's $30.75 to the average biologist's $28.07 an hour - or the mechanical engineer's $29.76 or the chemist's $30.68.

    Whose hourly pay is competitive with that of teachers? Computer scientists ($32.86), dentists ($35.51) and even nuclear engineers ($36.16).

    Note, too, that these hourly figures exclude benefits, such as health coverage and retirement accounts, which are typically more generous for government employeas teachers, than for private-sector workers.

    But don't teachers spend a great deal of time grading papers and creating lesson plans while away from school? Some do - but the comparisons here are still fair - because other professionals do work away from the office, too. Engineers and computer scientists are certainly no strangers to long nights working at home.

    Nor do teachers spend all of their time at school in the classroom. In fact, teachers spend fewer hours actually instructing students than many recognize. Stanford's Terry Moe worked with data straight from the nation's largest teacher union's own data - and found that the average teacher in a department setting (that is, where students have different teachers for different subjects) was in the classroom for fewer than 3.9 hours out of the 7.3 hours at school each day.

    The myth that teachers are underpaid is a significant hurdle to educational reform because it helps prop up the falsehood that schools in general are underfunded. In fact, taxpayers spend more money on public K-12 schools than they do on national defense, even more than the Gross Domestic Product of Russia.

    Yet, despite this generous investment, student outcomes as measured by standardized tests and graduation rates have been stagnant since the Ford administration.

    Just a few more facts for the left to dispute .. and try an reason away ..
    I'd be interested in the source of this article. It is not accurate to compare teachers to public servants such as police and firemen. Teachers have college degrees and many have masters degrees or more. I certainly don't mean to speak against public servants, and those who put their life in danger should earn more.

    I really disagree with the amount of time this article says teacher spend in class. I've never seen a schedule like that. What I see are secondary teachers who teach 6 out of 7 class periods and have 20 minutes for lunch. During lunch they are to supervise their students while they eat.
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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You make an assumption not supported. I don't know if they do or don't. Some assume they would, but that isn't actual evidence they do.
    Do you have a study that shows that children of engaged parents do better in school then parents not so engaged?

    It is common sense that parents that are engaged will tend to have kids that do better in school. It is also common sense that parents that are engaged are much more likely then unengaged parents to take the time and effort to sign their kids up for a charter school. Common sense can lead you wrong at times, but i'd be interested in seeing the study that you have.

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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No one suggests we should never worry about paying for things. Nor do I see what is being done as grown up. When you do things without seeking to find the best answers, to protect what matters most, whioe still be fiscally responsible, you are not being the grown up.



    Not asking that they fix communities. I'm asking of you can expect the same results. No one suggests they shouldn't know their subject matter or not try to pass that knowledge on. Wouodln't it be better to address what I actually asked?
    Addressing the issues of our poorer communities would cost much more money then they are willing to spend. Way to many people do not see how everything is all connected. If we can raise up the lower half of our society, we can raise up all of society.

    And teachers are expected to be superhuman- they are held accountable for problems they can't fix- a student that has a toothache, isn't going to learn any better because of what a teacher does- but the teacher is expected to deal with this anyway. There is a big picture and it has to stop being ignored.

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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Do you have a study that shows that children of engaged parents do better in school then parents not so engaged?

    It is common sense that parents that are engaged will tend to have kids that do better in school. It is also common sense that parents that are engaged are much more likely then unengaged parents to take the time and effort to sign their kids up for a charter school. Common sense can lead you wrong at times, but i'd be interested in seeing the study that you have.
    It's not easy to do that. My son was diagnosed with a speech disorder and I spent two years working with him to get him into regular classes- but it can be done. The SE teachers told me not to expect fast results then they were amazed that he improved so quickly. It is possible but it takes a lot of sacrifices on the parents. If two parents have to work all the time- it is a lot harder than one would think, especially if they are just working to pay the bills and can't afford special services above and beyond what the schools offer.

    We have to take a lot into consideration before judging anyone.

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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    in my district, northern california, east bay, we high school teachers get exactly ONE HUNDRED MINUTES of prep per day

    if we were to return to the fifty minutes every other teacher in our district gets, we would NOT be laying off so many outstanding young teachers like mrs c***** and ms r*****, two of my best friends, two exciting young educators whom, both of them, i have come to depend on

    the block schedules we use see hi school teachers either starting our classroom day at 10:49, ending at 1:12, or having a fat two hour break in the middle of our day

    look into it---block scheduling

    i gently told our union last year that we should go back to a prep every other day---y'know, to save the mrs c's and ms r's around us

    you can imagine the reaction of the order

    as it is, mrs c will probably return but ms r probably won't

    who's gonna enter my test scores into datawise?

    oh well, ms j****, our local rep, NEVER enters hers

    i could always just go that route, what can they do to me

    stay up, students

  9. #329
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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    FEW cliches permeate our culture more thoroughly than that of the underpaid schoolteacher. In fact, many people would say that if they know anything about public schools it is that teachers deserve far more money than they actually get.

    But the idea that teachers are underpaid is a myth. When we discard our presuppositions and look at the evidence, it turns out that teachers actually are better paid than many people realize.

    As of 2002, the average salary for teachers nationwide was about $44,600. That does seem modest. But we need account for the relatively few hours that teachers actually spend working compared to other professionals.

    That is, a teacher who earns $45,000 to work for nine months is clearly better paid than a nurse who gets the same salary for working 12 months.

    Since teachers' work schedule distorts direct salary comparisons with other jobs, we need to look at hourly pay.

    According to the U.S. Department of Labor, the average public elementary school teacher in the United States earns about $30.75 an hour. The average hourly pay of other public-service employees - such as firefighters ($17.91) or police officers ($22.64) - pales in comparison.

    Indeed, teachers' hourly rate exceeds even those in professions that require far more training and expertise. Compare the schoolteacher's $30.75 to the average biologist's $28.07 an hour - or the mechanical engineer's $29.76 or the chemist's $30.68.

    Whose hourly pay is competitive with that of teachers? Computer scientists ($32.86), dentists ($35.51) and even nuclear engineers ($36.16).

    Note, too, that these hourly figures exclude benefits, such as health coverage and retirement accounts, which are typically more generous for government employeas teachers, than for private-sector workers.

    But don't teachers spend a great deal of time grading papers and creating lesson plans while away from school? Some do - but the comparisons here are still fair - because other professionals do work away from the office, too. Engineers and computer scientists are certainly no strangers to long nights working at home.

    Nor do teachers spend all of their time at school in the classroom. In fact, teachers spend fewer hours actually instructing students than many recognize. Stanford's Terry Moe worked with data straight from the nation's largest teacher union's own data - and found that the average teacher in a department setting (that is, where students have different teachers for different subjects) was in the classroom for fewer than 3.9 hours out of the 7.3 hours at school each day.

    The myth that teachers are underpaid is a significant hurdle to educational reform because it helps prop up the falsehood that schools in general are underfunded. In fact, taxpayers spend more money on public K-12 schools than they do on national defense, even more than the Gross Domestic Product of Russia.

    Yet, despite this generous investment, student outcomes as measured by standardized tests and graduation rates have been stagnant since the Ford administration.

    Just a few more facts for the left to dispute .. and try an reason away ..
    Ok, I found it. this was written by Jay P. Greene as an op-ed for the New York Post in 2005. I tried to find if he cited any good sources for his information, but I really couldn't. I think he draws erroneous conclusions from limited data. I also didn't see any background in education.

    I couldn't get to the original posting of the column since it is so old, but it has been re-posted at the Manhattan Institute which is a conservative think tank.

    Frankly, I'm not impressed.
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
    ~I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    ~If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
    George Carlin

  10. #330
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    Re: Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    in my district, northern california, east bay, we high school teachers get exactly ONE HUNDRED MINUTES of prep per day

    if we were to return to the fifty minutes every other teacher in our district gets, we would NOT be laying off so many outstanding young teachers like mrs c***** and ms r*****, two of my best friends, two exciting young educators whom, both of them, i have come to depend on

    the block schedules we use see hi school teachers either starting our classroom day at 10:49, ending at 1:12, or having a fat two hour break in the middle of our day

    look into it---block scheduling

    i gently told our union last year that we should go back to a prep every other day---y'know, to save the mrs c's and ms r's around us

    you can imagine the reaction of the order

    as it is, mrs c will probably return but ms r probably won't

    who's gonna enter my test scores into datawise?

    oh well, ms j****, our local rep, NEVER enters hers

    i could always just go that route, what can they do to me

    stay up, students
    Wow, 100 minutes is a lot. It would be nice, but it seems like an unnecessary luxury. We get 50. I really don't like block scheduling. It doesn't work well for my subject but I can see how it would be good for some. It was the big thing around here several years ago but now every school has switched back to the traditional 50 minute class.
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
    ~I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    ~If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
    George Carlin

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