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Thread: Older Workers Could Face Cost Disparities in Health Law Glitch

  1. #31
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    Re: Older Workers Could Face Cost Disparities in Health Law Glitch

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    CBO scores can be incredibly onerous.

    They are based on the bills as written and understood at that time.
    They do not account for increased costs based on behavior changes and adjustments to bills after they are passed.

    That's one of the major problems with people relying on the CBO scores to this bill in original form.
    After they passed the doc fix, once the ObamaCare bill was passed, it practically erased all cost savings.
    The doc fix needed to be passed anyways. That's why it wasn't included in the score.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  2. #32
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    Re: Older Workers Could Face Cost Disparities in Health Law Glitch

    Did it count that this bill collects taxes for 10 years but provides benefits for 6?
    Probably not.

    Budgetary gimmicks.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Older Workers Could Face Cost Disparities in Health Law Glitch

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    The doc fix needed to be passed anyways. That's why it wasn't included in the score.
    No .
    The doc fix is passed to put off the scheduled cuts in Medicare reimbursement rates, because that program isn't saving money, but bleeding it.

    It was passed separately because they are playing 3 card monty with the budget.
    They want to use cuts in Medicare to say they're saving money but don't actually cut Medicare.

    Hell the president payed bonuses to private Medicare Advantage plans that didn't meet the bonus requirements.
    Another "cost savings" gone.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Older Workers Could Face Cost Disparities in Health Law Glitch

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Did it count that this bill collects taxes for 10 years but provides benefits for 6?
    Probably not.

    Budgetary gimmicks.
    http://www.politifact.com/virginia/s...ts-1o-years-t/
    So, Cantor’s argument that the "benefits" don’t kick in until 2014 is true if you’re looking at the biggest provisions of the law. But many other, smaller provisions to boost coverage have already taken effect. As PolitiFact has previously reported, there are plenty of examples:

    • Small business tax credits. From 2010 through 2013, qualifying small companies could get a tax credit of up to 35 percent of the company's contribution to employee health coverage. Beginning in 2014, when the exchanges start up, small businesses could qualify for up to 50 percent of the cost.

    • Coverage for those with pre-existing conditions. Soon after enactment, people with pre-existing conditions who haven't had coverage for at least six months could obtain coverage through a "high-risk pool" with subsidized premiums. This would be a temporary solution until the exchanges begin in 2014.

    • Assistance for early retirees. Starting last year, a temporary reinsurance program will help cut the cost of health coverage for retirees not old enough to be eligible for Medicare.

    • Dependent coverage to age 26. Shortly after enactment, all insurers were forced to accept dependent coverage for children up to age 26.

    • No more recisions. Existing plans can no longer terminate beneficiaries when they get sick.

    • Enhanced preventive care. Soon after enactment, qualified health plans were forced to provide certain preventive services without cost-sharing. Starting this year, patient cost-sharing for preventive services under Medicare and Medicaid are eliminated.
    ome of the tax provisions that help pay for the plan are already in effect. A 10 percent levy on indoor tanning began last year, and an escalating annual fee on drug makers begins this year. Individuals with flexible spending plans and health savings accounts -- tax-advantaged accounts linked to health care expenses -- have already been hit with certain exclusions and limits.

    But many of the major tax changes will be delayed by a few years.

    • Medical device taxes. A new levy on medical device makers worth about $20 billion over 10 years kicks in 2013.

    • Taxes to benefit Medicare Part A. The bill's hike of payroll taxes for individuals earning $200,000 or couples earning $250,000 and a new tax on unearned income for higher earners will start in 2013.

    • Insurance sector fees. Fees on health insurers totaling $67 billion over 10 years become effective in 2014.

    • Mandated coverage. Two of the bill's provisions most controversial to Republicans -- the requirement that individuals buy health insurance and that employers of a certain size offer affordable health insurance, under penalty of a fine -- would not begin until 2014. The individual mandate would start low that year and then phase in through 2016.

    • "Cadillac tax." The most recent version of the bill pushes back the tax on higher-cost health plans until 2018.
    I mean really, it's not that hard to look this crap up.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Older Workers Could Face Cost Disparities in Health Law Glitch

    GOP Doctors Caucus Reflects on One Year Anniversary of Obamacare | Republican Doctors Caucus
    Since its passage, state budgets have been crushed by rising Medicaid costs, businesses have struggled to keep their doors open due to onerous new administrative and tax burdens, and American citizens are being threatened with rising costs and less access to quality care.
    A year since Obamacare became law, the American people see its failure to address the cost crisis in health care and have a better understanding of the long-lasting negative impact it will have on our health care system and our federal budget. Obamacare is what the American people have been forced to reckon with – it has created uncertainty for our small businesses through burdensome regulations like the 1099 forms, and the law has accelerated rising premiums many were already struggling to pay.
    “In one year’s time, Democrats have managed to destroy every promise they made to the American people about healthcare reform,” said Congressman Broun. “They promised Obamacare would create jobs, lower the deficit, and expand health care coverage to those who need it most. Yet on the one year anniversary of Obamacare, we have seen abject failure in this massive government takeover of our healthcare system."
    As a physician I am the first to admit we must reform America’s health care system, but the way the last Congress and President Obama approached the challenge simply did not address the areas that needed improvement. Instead, it has created a system where we will pay more to get less
    I will be working on legislation to eliminate Obamacare "mandatory" slush funds and will pursue other de-funding and repeal bills to dismantle this ill-conceived law that increases the size and control of government, raises taxes and results in devastating regulations on small business owners.

  6. #36
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    Re: Older Workers Could Face Cost Disparities in Health Law Glitch

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Smaller provisions ≠ the most expensive provisions!
    You're only reading what you want.

    That also doesn't include the long term costs of the new entitlement for disability insurance.(Class act)
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Older Workers Could Face Cost Disparities in Health Law Glitch

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Smaller provisions ≠ the most expensive provisions!
    You're only reading what you want.

    That also doesn't include the long term costs of the new entitlement for disability insurance.(Class act)
    and this surprises you, why?

  8. #38
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    Re: Older Workers Could Face Cost Disparities in Health Law Glitch

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Smaller provisions ≠ the most expensive provisions!
    You're only reading what you want.

    That also doesn't include the long term costs of the new entitlement for disability insurance.(Class act)
    I'm only reading what I want? I already proved your "6 years of benefits 10 years of taxes" tripe to be nothing more than a talking point. If you want to get into specifics then you can begin by showing the cost of each provision and the money collected by each tax change.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  9. #39
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    Re: Older Workers Could Face Cost Disparities in Health Law Glitch

    I just felt like giving a quick summary of this thread for those interested.

    Con: People might pay different amounts!
    Lib: But both of the amounts seem reasonable. What's the problem?
    Con: There's so many problems!
    Lib: yea?
    Con: It rations care!
    Lib: Any proof of this?
    Con: It kills jobs!
    Lib: yea, no it doesn't.
    Con: It costs way to much!
    Lib: Not according to the CBO.
    Con: They scored it wrong!
    Lib: Here's proof showing they scored it right. Some provisions and taxes start now, some start later. It's not 6 full years of all benefits and 10 full years of taxes. Besides, the twenty year scoring shows even more cost savings.
    Con: You're just reading it the way you want! Keep drinking your kool-aid !!lol!!1
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  10. #40
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    Re: Older Workers Could Face Cost Disparities in Health Law Glitch

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    I'm only reading what I want? I already proved your "6 years of benefits 10 years of taxes" tripe to be nothing more than a talking point. If you want to get into specifics then you can begin by showing the cost of each provision and the money collected by each tax change.
    It's not a talking point because even the politifact page points out that it is half true.
    Maybe I oversimplified it but the point still stands.

    The major entitlement benefits are not paid for during the whole 10 years but a great many of the taxes are collected prior to the establishment of those benefits.

    You can't reliably show the costs of each provision, in reality, because it's very difficult to predict the behavior changes in people once those benefits are established.

    The CBO scored the bill based on the scenario written in the bill and not any changes made after the bill was passed, nor is it scored based on behavior changes.
    It's dishonest to say that ObamaCare saves money.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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