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Thread: China builds bridges with America

  1. #11
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    Re: China builds bridges with America

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yeah, why pay fair working wages when you can subsidize with Chinese slave labor.
    First of all I didn't vote for this contract.

    Next had I been part of decision I would have voted for it, because it makes economic sense in a State where Unions have contributed to a very disproportionate amount of the massive budget problems.

    Then we come to the myth of unions having fair wages. They use threats, intimidation, and coersion to force employers like the State of California to pay unreasonable, unsustainable, wages and benefits until they go broke. Which is where we are right damn now.

    Unions are a problem at every level of Government and should be outlawed.

    Saving the Tax payers of my State half a billion dollars is worth pissing off a bunch people who are in truth part of the reason a contract with China was so attractive they had no other choice that made any sense at all.

    It also saved every tax payer in the Nation money because the Federal funds were never used.

    This was a win, win, win,decision all around as regrettable and distasteful as it was to make.

    By the way. Because of this kind of contract China has a fast growing middle class, and they are not slaves.
    Last edited by Councilman; 06-29-11 at 07:09 AM.

  2. #12
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    Re: China builds bridges with America

    Another often overlooked point is that someone making $10K in China is equal to someone making $50K in the US. Chinese Things aren't just cheap for the rest of the world, they're cheap for the Chinese that live there, and make them.


    Tim-
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    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  3. #13
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    Re: China builds bridges with America

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    First of all I didn't vote for this contract.

    Next had I been part of decision I would have voted for it, because it makes economic sense in a State where Unions have contributed to a very disproportionate amount of the massive budget problems.

    Then we come to the myth of unions having fair wages. They use threats, intimidation, and coersion to force employers like the State of California to pay unreasonable, unsustainable, wages and benefits until they go broke. Which is where we are right damn now.

    Unions are a problem at every level of Government and should be outlawed.

    Saving the Tax payers of my State half a billion dollars is worth pissing off a bunch people who are in truth part of the reason a contract with China was so attractive they had no other choice that made any sense at all.

    It also saved every tax payer in the Nation money because the Federal funds were never used.

    This was a win, win, win,decision all around as regrettable and distasteful as it was to make.

    By the way. Because of this kind of contract China has a fast growing middle class, and they are not slaves.
    Yeah, that's a reasonable response. We've seen what happened without Unions. Can Unions become corrupt, go too far? Yes, of course. It's like any other body of government. While there are necessities to it and benefits which can be drawn, it can also grow out of control. I wouldn't nix the Unions though, a man has right to argue compensation for his labor.

    As for China...fastest growing Middle Class? Maybe in pure numbers (since they have 1/5 of the world's population). Maybe compared to us since our middle class is shrinking (and that ain't the fault of Unions). Eviscerating labor is not the proper solution. The individual needs some amount of power to argue for proper compensation for his labor, it's his after all.

    It just reminds me of when the Chinese had the Olympics. A few people died in training for that opening sequence and the director or whatever his title was was saying things like Here we work 16 hours straight, in America you can't do that without having a coffee break every 5 hours and high wages. Blah Blah Blah crap. But that's the point. Do you work for the State or does the State work for you, that's the difference in attitude.

    While there can be some internal regulation of Unions and the effects they cause, getting rid of them is just down right stupid. It's like getting rid of all government because too large of government is a burden against our rights and liberties. You don't throw the baby out with the bath water, you refine the system so that it works better. I'd much rather have proper labor and environmental laws and regulations which ensure proper working wages than to have the near slave labor style they have in China. People don't go home there. They construct apartments within the factory grounds. They recently had to send out a "please stop committing suicide" note. Does that sound good to you? It doesn't to me.
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    Re: China builds bridges with America

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Another often overlooked point is that someone making $10K in China is equal to someone making $50K in the US. Chinese Things aren't just cheap for the rest of the world, they're cheap for the Chinese that live there, and make them.


    Tim-
    China owns their own banks and everyone has forced "savings" (which is to say no savings at all). There is a group of people that are doing better in China, but they have 1/5 of the world's population. Even more are not doing better. They live in poverty, they can't afford the Nike shoes they're making. That was one of the big advancements by Ford and his assembly line; making a cheap product. He felt that he should make a product that even his workers could afford and would therefore sell more. And he was right.

    I don't know why you people are looking all stary-eyed over at China. That commie hell hole isn't doing great because they've somehow figured it out. I we didn't buy their ****, their government would soon have to be facing the repercussions of its authoritative strangle hold on its people. Man, Ronald Reagan would be turning over in his grave.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: China builds bridges with America

    I have no issue with private sector unions as long as any laws/regulation by government is fair for both sides. However, I DO have a problem with public sector unions in that, as many have indicated in the past, my biggest contention is in how the system by its very nature is corrupt. The people making the decisions for contracts are the very same people that got their job because of union activism. One could say the same thing about private business to some extent, that's why, I suggest a new system, a system that does a better job of lessening the impact of corruption in both private and public sector contributions. Why not have a system that annonymously, or by lottery select citizens to vote on, or sit in on collective bargaining agreements? We do it now in the legal system, ordinary people decide the fate of many criminals, are we to be less trustworthy in deciding how our tax dollars are spent?


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: China builds bridges with America

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I have no issue with private sector unions as long as any laws/regulation by government is fair for both sides. However, I DO have a problem with public sector unions in that, as many have indicated in the past, my biggest contention is in how the system by its very nature is corrupt. The people making the decisions for contracts are the very same people that got their job because of union activism. One could say the same thing about private business to some extent, that's why, I suggest a new system, a system that does a better job of lessening the impact of corruption in both private and public sector contributions. Why not have a system that annonymously, or by lottery select citizens to vote on, or sit in on collective bargaining agreements? We do it now in the legal system, ordinary people decide the fate of many criminals, are we to be less trustworthy in deciding how our tax dollars are spent?


    Tim-
    So the Union sounds a lot like our government. They hand out contracts to their buddies all the time, set the rules to do so. Do we have the same outrage?

    I'm not saying the system is perfect. If we were interested in revamping it we'd have to take very careful stock of how the government awards contracts as well and make the entire system more fair. A lot of hardwork, but not impossible. I just don't see the point in scraping it all together. I'm origonally from Chicago, I've seen the worst of the worst out of unions and I can see how they become corrupt and ineffective. But that means that we need to make sure to put in the proper oversight and restrictions on unions and government to ensure that they continue working for us.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #17
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    Re: China builds bridges with America

    I have no problem with this.
    Tons of our road/bridge maintenance money is wasted on other things, causing our roads and bridges to remain in disrepair.

    If they can get a good, working bridge, cheaper, let them have it.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: China builds bridges with America

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    How can this be?

    Simple if it were built here and Federal funds were used a Federal Law requires all the work using Federal funds must be preformed by Union workers.

    California found they could forgo Federal funds, have some of the Bridge built in China, shipped here and it will still save the State money.

    Thanks Federal laws and Unions, this cost a lot of jobs and money that would have helped the economy here.

    This is going to be a great addition to the Bay. I lived in the area for about 8 years and was stuck on the old bridge more than once, and one day I could hear the cables on the span humming in a stiff wind I would have sworn the whole suspended span was swaying. Pictured is the new East Span.
    In that bastion of Liberalism called San Francisco, they buy steel from China. Pretty much the same folks chastizing Bachmann's husband for running a clinic and accepting medicaid patients. Oh the Irony.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: China builds bridges with America

    First of all shame on all you conservatives for blaming just liberal politicians for letting China get to where it is. Guess what? It's every ****ing asshole politician we've had over the past few decades. Second of all I hate ****ing China. With a huge ****ing passion. I have a lot of ideas of how to deal with China. One of them stars with World and ends in 3. Because **** China that's why. Blaming this on unions and stuff is ****ing stupid. The problem is the Chinese, our government as a whole, trade agreements, etc.
    Last edited by JohnWOlin; 06-29-11 at 05:18 PM.
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    Re: China builds bridges with America

    There was a time when we needed unions. That time has passed. We have many laws in place to protect people in the work place these days. Why do we NEED unions any more?? Looking for honest answers here.. lol...
    I've never been able to understand why a Republican contributor is a 'fat cat' and a Democratic contributor of the same amount of money is a 'public-spirited philanthropist'.
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